Rifleman Archive
Thread: -=State of the Rifleman Profession=- July 27 2005
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AxilX
Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:32 pm
#27
Are you kidding me? If you can't at least admit that riflemen are worthless one on one after this conversation, then i don't know what to tell you. Again, i've gone through (multiple times) why we are unable to function in a one on one enviroment under any circumstances what-so-ever. We will not win against melee 80% of the time, we will not win against melee 10% of the time, we will never beat melee in any duel, ever if they have even the slightest amount of PvP skill, no matter what build you come up with that includes master rifleman.
Ackehece wrote:
responses in random order:
I never said we were uber 1 on 1. Iguess I didsay you can beat most melee stackers 100% of the time. I probably should have said 80% of the time. Sorry about that.
You are a BH you do have duelist stance good for you. It does help your defence immensely. With a bit of combat medic + rifleman and BH you must own 90% of the jedi you come across. At least that is my experience in this area. Melee tankers are even easier (if they are a triple master) double master + medic is much harder (longer to kill).
I would still say group pvp rifleman are totally worth having. WE can and do deal damage. Our best shot is not snipershot once things get close range I admit but we still have decent damage dealing specials and have you ever entered pvp when 8 rifleman opened up with snipershot for the first round? It hurts....lots. I do think that many of our specials require some tinkering. (pretty pissed right now about snares not stacking anymore) Such as headshot so it does at least the damage of legshot (damage output is our role is it not). We also have a verry meaningful advantages: Range Range Range. If they can not close the gap they are dead - pure and simple. Of course this means you probably should not start fighting at pointblank range (again a duelist problem). Buildings is melee owning ranged, open means ranged owning melee (who would have thought that range meant oh... keeping range!)
If you are reading Capable rifleman as rifleman alone then yeah we don't stand a chance in pvp. But most rifleman I know use multiple combat professions. Part of our biggest problem is that there is a CL 54 rifle wandering around that is easy to get that allows non-rifleman to have one of the most devastating weapons in the game to be used by anyone.
Rifleman can and do participate in pvp because we are effective. 64m vs 50m vs 35m . Stay in your range band and those melee tanks you are so worried about can never do anything to you. MD jedi... kite them if they are using AI they are 90% rooted, Melee stackers - hit em with a snare or a root (avoid the rifleman snare for this purpose since the stacking nerf >_< ) and then blast them at range, eventually they will run out of mind (or you out of action if your rifle is subpar and you did not buff action before entering combat) and then they die. If you have tankers with you in pvp they should be engaging the tanks from the other side as well - they will deal little damage to each other but they will also tend to focus the other player on them while you get your big shots it. (hard to ignore someone in your face).
Jedi in a groupare always better - that is a given by design. They are designed to be 1.5x stronger then most other templates from the ground up. Big surprise that they are better in pvp thenmost other templates.
I have one question for you. Would you attack a base defender by a full set of turrets manned by players if a rifleman was not with you? Would you do large scale pvp 50+ vs 50+ without rifleman? No - well nor would I.
Sorry I do not duel much I gcw pvp much much more (on any given night I am attacking something or other) so maybe I am being unfair about the dueling side of things. In group PvP I do know our power and use it regularly.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 08-08-2005 08:48 AM
Range is a meaningless advantage id you have no way ot maintain it, in group PvP it is even harder to main tain range than in individual PvP, any state you or your men can apply to advancing melee, you can have applied against you. This means they can and will catch you, as they are naturally faster.
We're worthless alone again?.. thought we were back to winning 80% of the time... =/
Kite a Jedi?... lol, what kind of jedi are on your server that aren't intelligent enough to at *least* use FR1 in thier template, probley 2... jedi are unkitable, and why would they use AI against me when i can't come close to outdamaging thier heals? (evenwith the most damage heavy ranged template in the game)
Not the point, i'm not argueing that jedi should not be better, 90% of my comparisons have been to to melee.
Sure... turrets are just as effectively killed by master defenders, and we give no real edge in large scale batttles,
Then let's drop the dueling angle as you don't understand it, but if we can be effective in a group, how about you give some specific reasons as to why, and how to accomplish this, i think i've done a fair job showing all the reasons we're inferior in every role, be it solo, in small group PvP, or larger scale PvP. I admit our disadvantages are less obvious the more players involved, but that is only because when you've got 50 people per side, the effect of one being near worthless is far less noticable than 5 on 5, or in a duel.
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