Rifleman Archive

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DarthMarksman wrote:

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XaverriJade7 wrote:

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DarthMarksman wrote:

It's a given to want the speed first. Though some will say Rifleman 4/0/0/0 is more beneficial for the accuracy. Still others will say that they found it best to level up Rifleman 0/4/0/0 for the concealment because they were aggroed less. Me personally, I just finished out the Sniper branch and have 1 more box on the Speed branch before I continue my grind. I have 1 box on the concelament branch right now. Next stop, Counter Sniper 3 and Flushing Shot 2.

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Grenades= Combat XP= Rifleman Special Abilities(speed) line. The other three useweapons XP, so grenades won't be much use for them. Assuming grenades still work as they did when I last checked.

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Right, your point. . .?

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DarthMarksman wrote:

It's a given to want the speed first. Though some will say Rifleman 4/0/0/0 is more beneficial for the accuracy. Still others will say that they found it best to level up Rifleman 0/4/0/0 for the concealment because they were aggroed less. Me personally, I just finished out the Sniper branch and have 1 more box on the Speed branch before I continue my grind. I have 1 box on the concelament branch right now. Next stop, Counter Sniper 3 and Flushing Shot 2.

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Therault wrote:

So basically what you're saying is that you'll get 4-5 combat xp for the lair and all the creatures. You'll get that anyways if you get a non-mission Huurton lair(more creatures per non-mission lair)and just use your rifle. You'll be getting 40-50k rifle xp and the 4-5k combat xp all at the same time, so just use your rifle, and you will get to master easily depending on how much you play

Menjari Seul

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Yes. But in the time you kill that one non-mission lair and all the Huurtons in it. You could have cleaned out a couple of mission lairs. Which means you would gain XP faster with Barb's method.

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Therault wrote:

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Oh yes I understand that, but you'd only get combat xp, the same you'd get if you would have used your rifle, also gaining rifle xp at the same time. It would just be a waste of time if you got all of that speed and you couldn't hit a target to save you from a DB. Another point is to get to Counter-Sniping 2 after you get the accuracy tree, so you can use the DXR6B Disruptor rifle to have another dam type.

Menjari Seul

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No. You would still use your rifle to kill the 9 or so Huurtons that are at the mission lair. You just kill the lair with grenades only. Also you aren't getting the same XP as you would with your rifle. Not sure if you meant it this way or not. You would get say 3-4k XP for the lair. If you used the Rifle it would be Rifle XP, while with Grenades it would be Combat XP. Now this will let you climb the Rifle Abilities at a faster rate than climbing the other branches. Because though you are getting the same amount of XP either way, the Rifle Abilities requires less XP than the equivelant box using Rifle XP.

So you will get a much larger percent of the needed XP in less time. The level IV boxes take either 450k Rifle XP or 150k Combat XP. Lets say you take out a mission lair with 9 Huurtons. Assume each Huurton is worth 3k XP and so is the lair. Using Rifle only you end up with 30k Rifle XP and 3k Combat XP. That amounts to 6.67% (Rifle XP)and 2% (Combat XP). Now if you use those grenades on the lair and rifle on the Huurton you end up with 27k Rifle XP and 6k Combat XP. That comes out to 6% (Rifle XP) and 4% (Combat XP). Net result is in the latter you lose 10% Rifle XP in return for a 100% increase in Combat XP. A very favorable trade off. And that is just for one mission lair.

At those rates it would take a total of 69.2 mission lairs to get all four Rifle Abilities boxes with grenades. Otherwise you are looking at 138.3 missions to get the same. In those 69 missions you would earn 1868.4k Rifle XP. Same amount of mission going Rifle only you are looking at 2076k Rifle XP. Slightly more. But you would only be half way thru the Rifle Abilities branch.

You need 3675k Rifle XP to get from Novice to Master Rifleman. So even going the Rifle only method you are only 56% thru the Rifle XP branches and 50% thru Rifle Abilities. Grenade method leaves you at 50.8% and 100% of Rifle Abilities.

The difference is that in the same amount of time you could be either at +50 speed (Rifle method) or +70 speed (Grenade method). The difference in speed. Lets say you are using a 6.6 speed T21 with FlushingShot2. At +50 you would fire at 8.58 while at +70 its at 5.148. That is a 67% increase in DPS.

As for getting all that speed with no accuracy. Not really. You are gaining Rifle XP as stated above so you will have some to get. However you will have low accuracy in the begining anyways. So your miss rate while climbing the accuracy branch will be the same regardless. But with faster speed you will still kill the target faster.

I wouldn't climb Counter-Sniping just to get the DXR. It may be nice but for most grinding you don't need it's Acid damage. You will do just fine with the T21 which is also a less expensive weapon and generaly does better damage. If you are climing the Counter-Sniping branch it should be to get FlushingShot2 at Counter-Sniping III.

Sorry for all the math. Was curious just how advantageous it would be to use Barb's Grenade method and just started running all the numbers. I was a bit surprised at just how much faster it is.

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Waste93 wrote:

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Therault wrote:

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Oh yes I understand that, but you'd only get combat xp, the same you'd get if you would have used your rifle, also gaining rifle xp at the same time. It would just be a waste of time if you got all of that speed and you couldn't hit a target to save you from a DB. Another point is to get to Counter-Sniping 2 after you get the accuracy tree, so you can use the DXR6B Disruptor rifle to have another dam type.

Menjari Seul

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No. You would still use your rifle to kill the 9 or so Huurtons that are at the mission lair. You just kill the lair with grenades only. Also you aren't getting the same XP as you would with your rifle. Not sure if you meant it this way or not. You would get say 3-4k XP for the lair. If you used the Rifle it would be Rifle XP, while with Grenades it would be Combat XP. Now this will let you climb the Rifle Abilities at a faster rate than climbing the other branches. Because though you are getting the same amount of XP either way, the Rifle Abilities requires less XP than the equivelant box using Rifle XP.

So you will get a much larger percent of the needed XP in less time. The level IV boxes take either 450k Rifle XP or 150k Combat XP. Lets say you take out a mission lair with 9 Huurtons. Assume each Huurton is worth 3k XP and so is the lair. Using Rifle only you end up with 30k Rifle XP and 3k Combat XP. That amounts to 6.67% (Rifle XP)and 2% (Combat XP). Now if you use those grenades on the lair and rifle on the Huurton you end up with 27k Rifle XP and 6k Combat XP. That comes out to 6% (Rifle XP) and 4% (Combat XP). Net result is in the latter you lose 10% Rifle XP in return for a 100% increase in Combat XP. A very favorable trade off. And that is just for one mission lair.

At those rates it would take a total of 69.2 mission lairs to get all four Rifle Abilities boxes with grenades. Otherwise you are looking at 138.3 missions to get the same. In those 69 missions you would earn 1868.4k Rifle XP. Same amount of mission going Rifle only you are looking at 2076k Rifle XP. Slightly more. But you would only be half way thru the Rifle Abilities branch.

You need 3675k Rifle XP to get from Novice to Master Rifleman. So even going the Rifle only method you are only 56% thru the Rifle XP branches and 50% thru Rifle Abilities. Grenade method leaves you at 50.8% and 100% of Rifle Abilities.

The difference is that in the same amount of time you could be either at +50 speed (Rifle method) or +70 speed (Grenade method). The difference in speed. Lets say you are using a 6.6 speed T21 with FlushingShot2. At +50 you would fire at 8.58 while at +70 its at 5.148. That is a 67% increase in DPS.

As for getting all that speed with no accuracy. Not really. You are gaining Rifle XP as stated above so you will have some to get. However you will have low accuracy in the begining anyways. So your miss rate while climbing the accuracy branch will be the same regardless. But with faster speed you will still kill the target faster.

I wouldn't climb Counter-Sniping just to get the DXR. It may be nice but for most grinding you don't need it's Acid damage. You will do just fine with the T21 which is also a less expensive weapon and generaly does better damage. If you are climing the Counter-Sniping branch it should be to get FlushingShot2 at Counter-Sniping III.

Sorry for all the math. Was curious just how advantageous it would be to use Barb's Grenade method and just started running all the numbers. I was a bit surprised at just how much faster it is.

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i would like to clear this up a bit you dont kill the lair withthe grenades. that is cost prohibitive. what you do is target the lair until the first huurton of the 6 attacking you dies. this yields about 5000 combat xp for the kill plus the normal bonus of 10% combat xp for the kill for a further 500 combat XP. at this point the other 5 are generally a shot or two from death. killing them will generate on average 4500-5000 combat xp. once all those are dead jump on the bike and go to the next lair. this will generate about 30000combat xp on average. takes about 6-7 grenades at 5 charges per grenade to achieve this.

go to the next mission lair and repeat the process for another 30k combat xp. you dont NEED to kill the lair witht he grenade. the lair just has a 100% chance to be hit by a grenade so everything aroudn the lair will automatically take damage. thats why you target the lair. destroying the lair itself is irrelevent.

it takes about 5-10 minutes to generate 30k combat XP doing this. it will take 10 repitions to generate 300k combat or about 100 minutes at most.

at some point going back and forth between the two mission lairs the lairs will poof and you will have to go pick up another pair of missions. i hope this clarifies a bit.

I think you are all missing the point totally of the first post..

I've been using grenades for FS grind, since it's much faster for me given my template. I earn 350k FS xp per day, more if I concentrate.

1 level 99 Huurton Stalker lair gives roughly 65k - 75k COMBAT xp when using grenades. That means you could conceivably do all 4 combat xp boxes of any elite master in about 2 - 3 hrs, with a little bit of normal weapon xp from cleaning up the left overs.

A typical lair takedown with grenades works like this:
Tap the lair with your weapon.
Wait till you have about 5 stalkers agroed on you and surrounding you within 5m radius of lair (stand in the lair is easiest)
Start throwing grenades, with the lair targetted. Because you never miss a lair when attacking it, the AoE of the grenades ALWAYS hits the stalkers surrounding you.
Once all 10 stalkers are dead, reload your hotbar with more grenades, use your weapon to take down the lair till more stalkers spawn.
Wait for all 5 stalkers to pop and agro you, and repeat with the grenades.

Use your weapon to finish off any low health stalkers, or ones running away, since you can only hit 5 stalkers at once (the others will take no damage, even if hit by the AoE)

There's a really nice guide on the FS forums, but this is the basics of it.

So there you go, you now have however much rifle speed 0004 gives you, to speed up gaining 444X by nearly double I would guess, all for 2 - 3 hours work.

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Therault wrote:

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Waste93 wrote:

Yes. But in the time you kill that one non-mission lair and all the Huurtons in it. You couldhavecleaned out a couple of mission lairs. Which means you would gain XP faster with Barb's method.

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Oh yes I understand that, but you'd only get combat xp, the same you'd get if you would have used your rifle, also gaining rifle xp at the same time. It would just be a waste of time if you got all of that speed and you couldn't hit a target to save you from a DB. Another point is to get to Counter-Sniping 2 after you get the accuracy tree, so you can use the DXR6B Disruptor rifle to have another dam type.

Menjari Seul

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i think your missing the point. speed is the greatest deamon of novice rifle users. to get the needed speed you can grind out all your rifle XP and still be a few boxes short using a slow rifle firing at much less than what you could at 0004 with an abysmal DPS.

at 0004 it wont improve your aim but your DPS will be massively increased by the simple fact that you are firing 4-5 times more shots in the same amount of time as you were at 0000. this will let you climb the accuracy boxes MUCH MUCH faster and even obviate the need for flushing shot altogether when leveling. it will take you about an hour or two to gain 0004 as opposed to a massively slow grind for weeks and turn that into a fun grind where your shots are zinging out with great rapidity.

in two hours a novice rifle can gain on average MAYBE 100k weapons XP not enough for a single box of accuracy and barely 10k of combat XP. using grenades for those two hours the novice rifle can achieve 0004 and a HUGE speed boost and make it so that the same novice rifle user in the NEXT two hours of leveling can achieve 400-500k rifle xp. the novice rifleman who did not spend those two hours will STILL be firing VERY VERY slow and only gaining about 100k weapons and 10k combat by hour 4. while the novice rifle who did grenades to get 0004 will be raking in 400-500k weapons XP by hour 4...

which rifleman would you rather be??

that is what im trying to explain but im not very good at it lol

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NeoEcks wrote:
a grand idea. i will use it to level rifles for one of my alts.

this is the rifleman forum, so it is ideal to keep the topic on riflemen...but i might whisper that this would be good for ANY elite combat profession to fill up that pesky combat XP line (pistol speed is in the combat XP line too, and for those carbineers looking for FAA2...combat line)

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yes it would. and the bonus is 30-40k combat per 6 hurtons not per lair killed you dont kill the lair witht he grenades the lair is merely a landing point for the grenades it is the AOE blast effect that kills the huurton stalkers. you must be standing in the lair.

you only need to kill 10 sets of 6 huurton stalkers to achieve this. takes about 2 hours at the most since C12 grenades are so slow for non-commandos.

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Ziaa wrote:
I think you are all missing the point totally of the first post..

I've been using grenades for FS grind, since it's much faster for me given my template. I earn 350k FS xp per day, more if I concentrate.

1 level 99 Huurton Stalker lair gives roughly 65k - 75k COMBAT xp when using grenades. That means you could conceivably do all 4 combat xp boxes of any elite master in about 2 - 3 hrs, with a little bit of normal weapon xp from cleaning up the left overs.

A typical lair takedown with grenades works like this:
Tap the lair with your weapon.
Wait till you have about 5 stalkers agroed on you and surrounding you within 5m radius of lair (stand in the lair is easiest)
Start throwing grenades, with the lair targetted. Because you never miss a lair when attacking it, the AoE of the grenades ALWAYS hits the stalkers surrounding you.
Once all 10 stalkers are dead, reload your hotbar with more grenades, use your weapon to take down the lair till more stalkers spawn.
Wait for all 5 stalkers to pop and agro you, and repeat with the grenades.

Use your weapon to finish off any low health stalkers, or ones running away, since you can only hit 5 stalkers at once (the others will take no damage, even if hit by the AoE)

There's a really nice guide on the FS forums, but this is the basics of it.

So there you go, you now have however much rifle speed 0004 gives you, to speed up gaining 444X by nearly double I would guess, all for 2 - 3 hours work.

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yeah tehre is a better guilde on the FS forum for doing this. it just occured to me yesterday how useful this would be to the novice rifle user. ive been master for a long time and i did it the hard way each fo the 4 times i have mastered rifle. i just thought this would be a nice way for the raw noob to rifles to gain those super critical combat XP rifle speed boxes easily and quickly to speed up the rest of the rifle grind and make less than master less than painful

Message Edited by Therault on 10-22-2004 05:44 AM