Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifles Speed Cap How to?
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Shung
Fri May 14, 2004 12:50 pm
#14
glorydragon wrote:
why +97? why not +95 or +99 or+125 (I come from the Doctor forms and to get good buffs you need +125 wound treatment)
Because of non linear equation of weapon spd. theoretically if you have a 10.0 spd weapon at 100 spd for that weapon you will always hit cap on all specials since no weapon's that slow short of tusken king rifle you will only need 97-98 to cap with SS2 because
Sleed
Fri May 14, 2004 4:43 pm
#15
its almost easier to get a krayt pearl on bria than a good speed tape 
Pardallian
Fri May 14, 2004 7:06 pm
#17
I think strafe2 is 2.6 delay not 3.5
With a 7.9 T21 and only 96 speed i still fire every sec.
Man we need some numbers on the delay modifiers, this is not something we need to guess, why is this such a big secret??????????
glorydragon
Fri May 14, 2004 7:33 pm
#18
Sotaudi wrote:
Shung wrote:
glorydragon wrote:
why +97? why not +95 or +99 or+125 (I come from the Doctor forms and to get good buffs you need +125 wound treatment)
Because of non linear equation of weapon spd. theoretically if you have a 10.0 spd weapon at 100 spd for that weapon you will always hit cap on all specials since no weapon's that slow short of tusken king rifle you will only need 97-98 to cap with SS2 because
To be more specific, weapon speeds and personal speed mods work differently than wound treatment. I am not yet familiar with the formulas for how wound treatment affects the buffs, but from what I have seen, it probablyworks out to bepercentage increase in buffing power. Thus, +100 would represent 100% effectiveness. So +125 would make sense in that 125% would represent a 25% increase over some ideal (i.e., whata Master Doc can do naturally).
For weapon speeds, the personal speed mod is not an increase, but a reduction. That is, to calculate weapon speed, you take the"natural" speed of the rifle and multiply it by the delay multiplier of the special. So a 7 second T21 firing Strafeshot2 (delay multiplier of 3.5) would have a "natural" (unmodified) speed of 7 * 3.5 = 24.5. The personal speed mod, then, represents a reduction in the natural speed of the weapon/special due to the skill of the user. So a Master with a personal speed mod of 90 is able to reduce the natural speed of the weapon/special by 90%. A Master Rifleman + Master Marksman has a personal speed mod of +95, so they reduce the natural speed by 95%. A 90% reduction in speed of 24.5 would result in an actual speed of 2.45 seconds (i.e., 24.5 * (1 - .90) = 24.5 * .10 = 2.45). A 95% reduction would result in an actual speed of 1.2 seconds.
Therefore, since we know that no weapon can be fired at less than 1 shot per second, we can see that 95 is getting us very close to the speed cap with Strafeshot2. Since Strafeshot2 is our slowest special, and since we know the fastest actual speed is 1 second per shot, we can rearrange the formula a little and dermine what weapon speed you need to hit the speed cap given a particular speed mod or what speed mod you need to hit the cap given a particular weapon speed.
After playing around with those numbers, you can determine that Master Rifleman with a +90 speed modcan fire Strafeshot2 (and, therefore, any special) at the speed cap with a weapon witha speed of2.9 seconds or less. At +95, you can use any weapon with a speed of 5.7 or less. At +96, you can go to a 7.1 speed weapon and still hit the cap, and at +97, you can do the same with any weapon of 9.5 or less. Since almost all crafted weapons and darn few looted ones worth using have a weapon speed of more than 9.5 seconds, +97 is generally considered the maximum speed mod needed to cap with any special with any weapon you are likely to use. Take it to +98, and you can probably fire anything you will ever come across at the speed cap given it will fire a 14.3 second weapons at the cap.
So while Docs may be trying to boost wound treatment as far as possible, there are practical limits to boosting the personal speed mod, and going beyond a certain point is actually quite useless. Even without the cap, a+100would be mathematically pointless because +100would represent a 100% reduction in the speed (i.e., weapon speed of 0, which would mean what? always firing?), and anything greater than 100 would result in negative speed numbers (meaning you are firing even before you pull the trigger?).Thus, there is no mathematical reason to go over +99, and, because of the speed cap and other known factors, +97 is the generally accepted maximum needed.
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 05-14-2004 12:24 PM
very very helpfull. thank you.
Sotaudi
Sat May 15, 2004 12:08 am
#19
Shung wrote:
glorydragon wrote:
why +97? why not +95 or +99 or+125 (I come from the Doctor forms and to get good buffs you need +125 wound treatment)
Because of non linear equation of weapon spd. theoretically if you have a 10.0 spd weapon at 100 spd for that weapon you will always hit cap on all specials since no weapon's that slow short of tusken king rifle you will only need 97-98 to cap with SS2 because
To be more specific, weapon speeds and personal speed mods work differently than wound treatment. I am not yet familiar with the formulas for how wound treatment affects the buffs, but from what I have seen, it probablyworks out to bepercentage increase in buffing power. Thus, +100 would represent 100% effectiveness. So +125 would make sense in that 125% would represent a 25% increase over some ideal (i.e., whata Master Doc can do naturally).
For weapon speeds, the personal speed mod is not an increase, but a reduction. That is, to calculate weapon speed, you take the"natural" speed of the rifle and multiply it by the delay multiplier of the special. So a 7 second T21 firing Strafeshot2 (delay multiplier of 3.5) would have a "natural" (unmodified) speed of 7 * 3.5 = 24.5. The personal speed mod, then, represents a reduction in the natural speed of the weapon/special due to the skill of the user. So a Master with a personal speed mod of 90 is able to reduce the natural speed of the weapon/special by 90%. A Master Rifleman + Master Marksman has a personal speed mod of +95, so they reduce the natural speed by 95%. A 90% reduction in speed of 24.5 would result in an actual speed of 2.45 seconds (i.e., 24.5 * (1 - .90) = 24.5 * .10 = 2.45). A 95% reduction would result in an actual speed of 1.2 seconds.
Therefore, since we know that no weapon can be fired at less than 1 shot per second, we can see that 95 is getting us very close to the speed cap with Strafeshot2. Since Strafeshot2 is our slowest special, and since we know the fastest actual speed is 1 second per shot, we can rearrange the formula a little and dermine what weapon speed you need to hit the speed cap given a particular speed mod or what speed mod you need to hit the cap given a particular weapon speed.
After playing around with those numbers, you can determine that Master Rifleman with a +90 speed modcan fire Strafeshot2 (and, therefore, any special) at the speed cap with a weapon witha speed of2.9 seconds or less. At +95, you can use any weapon with a speed of 5.7 or less. At +96, you can go to a 7.1 speed weapon and still hit the cap, and at +97, you can do the same with any weapon of 9.5 or less. Since almost all crafted weapons and darn few looted ones worth using have a weapon speed of more than 9.5 seconds, +97 is generally considered the maximum speed mod needed to cap with any special with any weapon you are likely to use. Take it to +98, and you can probably fire anything you will ever come across at the speed cap given it will fire a 14.3 second weapons at the cap.
So while Docs may be trying to boost wound treatment as far as possible, there are practical limits to boosting the personal speed mod, and going beyond a certain point is actually quite useless. Even without the cap, a+100would be mathematically pointless because +100would represent a 100% reduction in the speed (i.e., weapon speed of 0, which would mean what? always firing?), and anything greater than 100 would result in negative speed numbers (meaning you are firing even before you pull the trigger?).Thus, there is no mathematical reason to go over +99, and, because of the speed cap and other known factors, +97 is the generally accepted maximum needed.
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 05-14-2004 12:24 PM
GrendalP
Sat May 15, 2004 12:36 am
#20
I'm not much one for wanting to spend a ton of money on buying something on auction either...
Nor am I in to terribly big of a rush to get the tapes, so I figure in time I will find one... however...
Can anyone give me some bits of advice on where and what I might hunt, to increase my chances of finding speed tapes and such, for I really don't have any clue as to where to begin, or how to go about it.
Thanks
- Mishakal
Wcudney
Sun May 16, 2004 12:45 am
#22
+100 is the cap. Im currently master marks with a +5 tape. I shoot at 1 sec with everyshot.
--------Zav-yran Cacious Corbantis
Galjoss
Sun May 16, 2004 2:32 am
#23
As for items that dont decay, I'm not sure if its a bug or not but my backpack has had a condition of 1000/1000 ever since i got it, and that has 4 sockets, but i'm saving that for great tapes, as I almost never take it off.
Nadiel26
Sun May 16, 2004 4:21 am
#24
lol good luck adding tape to it. if you manage to figure that out let me know 
http://killyourpc.org/swg/swg_dps.php?weapon_min=0&weapon_max=0&weapon_speed=0&pc_speed=0&class=Rifle
use that to quickly calulate what you need to cap your speed
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