Rifleman Archive

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Iodan wrote:

I think the .5 pistol speed cap is kind of (read: totally) silly, but until all the variables are in place, can we honestly say that everything will suck? We won't know how bad it is until we see it, but hey, don't say it here, say it on that thread... After all, it is a proposal this time. We have convinced the Devs before that they were wrong, even if they didn't respond the way we wanted.

Crying here that it is the death of the rifleman profession is doing what?

Belive me, I was really, REALLY looking forward thatrate of fire at master. But if our front-loaded damage were to go up with the delay... Or if the combo attacks gimmick is as cool as he is selling us..

I've said it before, players will either adapt or quit. If they quit, less competition. But judging the future on a one page proposal without all the info is a little crazy.

Lets ask for more details, maybe we will like what they have to say.

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Yes, everything will suck. 0.5 to 3.0 is a factor of 6. That means in order to balance DPS at master, rifles will need to do 6 times the damage per hit as pistol. If they don't (or if it's not at least close) we're getting screwed on damage. Considering currently FWGs are easily in the 50-200 damage range, this means we would need a rifle doing 300-1200. Base. I don't think it needs to be explained why this is a bad idea, at least not with ENORMOUS amounts of work rebalancing everything else.

"That means in order to balance DPS at master, rifles will need to do 6 times the damage per hit as pistol. If they don't (or if it's not at least close) we're getting screwed on damage"

This supports what I am saying,we don't know what the deal will be. We don't know if it will suck or not. Maybe we get 10 times damage.Who knows, maybe all Pistols get changed to AR0 and all Rifles get AR2+ making armor more important. Maybe pistol damage is reduced, hell we don't know squat.

All we are doing is crying about how insane pistols will be if they used the same damage formulas that are in place now. Which, yes WOULD suck... A lot.

So lets go get answers before we all drop all of our skills lament the good ole days of riflemen.

I agree with Iodan, we've got to be patient and see what they're planning before we start complaining about it.

I'm not dropping my skills yet - it's not quite yet time to panic - but it's certainly time to be very concerned. There's no mention that they realize what they need to do to rifle damage values in order to balance the situation. A 1200 max damage rifle is going to easily have the potential to one-shot players in PvP.

You're right we don't know what else will change, but this also means there's the possibility nothing else will. Given their prior track record, I think it's quite justifable to lobby and make sure they understand all the consequences of what they're doing.

I'm not saying surrender all your rifle skills and run for the hills; I'm saying we need to make sure they're not making a mistake. And start hoarding supplies, just in case.

I've put in a lot of work into Rifleman, I still am but should I..?. These changes from my view look bad. Real bad. The speed bonuses from Master was the only thing that I was looking to for salvation in the Rifleman.

Why bother with rifleman? Just get BH or Commando - we're going to be shredded. Who cares if Commando Weapons get changed to ranged - I mean they already hit for 1500 to 5000 on Pistoleers... What difference does it make? You're already one shott'd.

Will I last the night as a Rifleman, with warping Mobs, and the knowledge that the rate of fire advantages I got from my skills and a sliced DL20a are gone...

I don't know. Torsho Shot or FlameThrowers are looking real tempting, especially when facing off 60K HP lairs.

I felt that the balnace with rifles is that we get SCREWED as nocive but make up for it at master with our speed bonus... With the speed bonus in this proposalhow can a rifleman stop an inc melee. We miss 1/3rd of the time on pvp running, cant one shot anymore but can come close at times.... Thats at least 6 seconds to kill someone at minimum.... They will be close to melee range in 6 seconds so we cant hit them even if we tryed... Plus now we cant really kite cause we will miss more.... THE ONLY WAY to balance this is ifthey up dmg dmg enough to one shot people... If we can one shot them we stand a chance of keep off melers but am thinking we are getting a raw deal.

/agree Noules

I already put some request for clarification on there. Lets keep on em & get some details. I don't think the 1 shot PvP issue is as much of a concern by the devsany more with the acceptance of the Commando and LLC.

I don't know why the T21 was such a big deal back in the day, maybe they were considering mind attacks? A 1k PvP damage attack to health or Action is not as big of a deal because doctor buffs are available and last. If you could buff your mind to 2500 like you can do with Health and Action & it lasted more than 30 minutes... Things would likely be different in the world... But thats another topic for discussion.

Solution #4:
Once we add the speed cap, I will investigate improving damage output. The combo system I have proposed will nicely fit into the rifleman attack paradigm.

- This is the part that really kind of scares me. From the above solution it looks the speed cap will go into place and then they will see about damage increase. So for an indefinite amount of time, we'll have the same damage, same ham costs with a speed decrease.

Eventually it may balance, but if the speed cap goes into place with no changes done to damage for rifles, then I think that this is extremely unbalanced for riflemen.

Gratz to the whining novice riflemen on this board who wanted novices and masters to be at the same level. If these changes go through we will be. Looks like you may yet achieve your goal.

The perfect answer to solving the DPS issue of pistols at 0.5 s, and rifles at 3.0 s is to have rifles do 2-3 times the damage as pistols. And have pistols miss 2-3 times more often. This would equal a net effect, and reflect real life, where a rifle is slower but more accurate that a pistol

Joban Starsider Bothan Rifleman

So the speed cap will be 3.0 at Master. So what will newbies be firing at? 12 seconds average?

And pistols will fire 6X faster. I have hopes they will make rifles do 6X more damage, but really, what are the chances of that? Also, notice the wording. He will incestigate Rifle damage AFTER the new speed caps are in place. Yay! That will probably mean months of doing jack **edit**!

They may fix cover. Wee freaking hoo. They haven't addresed the problem of being stuck in half-speed mode EVERY SINGLE TIME we cover.

This is incredibly dissapointing. They haven't even addressed the 2.5X damage increase. Bull**edit**.

Rifleman should be able to be as fast as pistols and such. YES we do CRAZY dmg but we run out of mind then basiclly disabled untill it regens up... Pistols can heal themselves while we can not... I think it should be kept the same.... so at master 1 on 1 i kill jsut about everyone but 1 on 1 then on one more then im dead cause im out of mind,,, i think its balanced the way it is....

When I saw the first question I thought they might of tried to balance the game, but comon,a pistoleer can hit me for 300 damage past a PSG with fan shot, give them .5 second shots while changing riflemen to 3 second delay will just kill riflemen altogether.

Riflemen: Problem #1:

Development Hates Riflemen.

Solution #1:

We don’t hate you.

No you just love pistoleers more.

Problem #2:

Take Cover is not particularly effective given it’s penalties. It immobilizes you (at lower levels) and doesn’t give adequate protection.

Solution #2:

I’m going to try to improve the protection values of take cover. I’d like to see these protection values scale from their current value to a much higher protection level at higher levels. Sure you lock yourself to crawling/prone, but I think it should give a much more significant level of protection.

This will also enhance the "anti-sniper" moves of riflemen. If cover is more useful, more players will use it. If more players use cover, the anti-cover moves become more useful.

Very nice to hear, but it should have been in the system already. Will need to be a massive defensive bonus give that everyone and their nan now has a pet to set on us.

Problem #3:

Rifleman accuracy is lacking against moving targets.

Solution #3:

Along with the take cover defensive bonuses, I think it’s appropriate to add a large(ish) attack bonus to go with take cover. This will further enhance the "purpose" of rifleman. I’ll also investigate the toHit bonuses for all rifleman skills.

So we can hit the guy at least once before their pet kills us (Prone and rifle melee penalty = yummy)

Problem #4:

Rifleman damage output is too low given the delays involved.

Solution #4: Once we add the speed cap, I will investigate improving damage output. The combo system I have proposed will nicely fit into the rifleman attack paradigm.

Read: We will wait several months before making this change.

Problem #5:

Rifles too difficult to craft (T21)

Solution #5:

I’ll raise this issue with the crafting designers and see if we can come to a reasonable solution for this problem.

Praise the lord!

Overall VERY disappointed, it is turning into pistolfor the win.

Where on earth are pistols disadvantages now?