Rifleman Archive
Thread: They took the Proton Rifle!
MWJ wrote:
I like the "Link Dead" rifle. I'd say give Rangers the Explosive Sniper, as is is a Czerka Adventurer. That's what it is designed for.
The Ink Rifle - the orphaned and unwanted stepchild of the rifles world. ^_^
Ackehece wrote:
MWJ wrote:
I like the "Link Dead" rifle. I'd say give Rangers the Explosive Sniper, as is is a Czerka Adventurer. That's what it is designed for.
The Ink Rifle - the orphaned and unwanted stepchild of the rifles world. ^_^
I'm going to have both....
Ackehece wrote:
They took the rifle and now they want it to be a heavy weapon and not a rifle at all. I am totally not down with that. It should be a rifle. Rifle skills should enhance the use of this weapon and not heavy weapon skills.
Clarification either way would help as it would help some decide a new template and shut up some other people. They would have the same argument if they got a carb in the master box. Although I can see their argument why have a master box level weapon that isn't controlled by that profs mods. But take a look at BH they have onbly general mods for their Proton carb and High cap Scatter. Can't please everyone I guess.
IKIDRO
IKIDRO wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
They took the rifle and now they want it to be a heavy weapon and not a rifle at all. I am totally not down with that. It should be a rifle. Rifle skills should enhance the use of this weapon and not heavy weapon skills.
Clarification either way would help as it would help some decide a new template and shut up some other people. They would have the same argument if they got a carb in the master box. Although I can see their argument why have a master box level weapon that isn't controlled by that profs mods. But take a look at BH they have onbly general mods for their Proton carb and High cap Scatter. Can't please everyone I guess.
Maybe I should have posted this on my rifles acct
Ackehece wrote:
They took the rifle and now they want it to be a heavy weapon and not a rifle at all. I am totally not down with that. It should be a rifle. Rifle skills should enhance the use of this weapon and not heavy weapon skills.
what ended up happening is that they switched 2 certs..... depending on where a cert is in a tree determinesa weapons stats. so in reality, they switched graphics.... not really a big deal in my opinion.
If thats the case, then why even have the Proton Rifle certed for Master Commando? Shouldn't, at the least, a weapon thats in a profession use that same profession's specific weapon mods?
What if the MIR took Heavy Weapon mods, how would you guys feel? Whichever way the ball rolls, theres going to be at least one profession's mods ruled out - eleminating desire to dabble (or in this case master) the given profession?
Not the slightest bit. Our heavy weapons are a testament to that. Although they do not have specials of their own, they power-up other profession's range mods. Ourselves, and any other range profession benefits from that and gives us all an incentive to dabble or master ranged professions.
Now, also remember that pretty much all of our Heavy Weapons are AoE attacks. The Proton Rifle would be one of the few weapons we have that won't have the AoE-like qualities of our heavy weapons. But because its a rifle...we'll be forced to take up rifleman to be proficient with it, as opposed to already being proficient with it as a MC as a MR would be with the T-21 rifle.
Now, a rifleman would only master commando if he/she chooses to simply attain the cert - and the in the long run, would profit more than a Commando who wanted to say pick up carbineer or pistoleer skills, or TKA. Why should a master cert weapon require the specific mods of another profession? Isn't that a bit illogical?
If its heavy weapon mod specific, then the costs/gains would be equal for both an MC and a MR, but if its rifle mod specific they won't - unless if its a MC/MR template (and not EVERY rifleman nor EVERY commando would want that right?)
Look, Im sorry that you guys got dissappointed because the Devs took the Proton Rifle away and I don't want to sound like Im being mean or critizing...but if the devs place a rifle in our master box and seem to be making it as into a heavy weapon...then let it take heavy weapon specific mods. Us gaining that cert was a surprise, and if we had a choice many commandos would have wanted the proton carbine or...later on, the underslung carbine...
Edit: And with BH's having only their general mods...I would also say that they should be given at least some specific mods! But, thats for another post.
Message Edited by StarNick on 04-08-2005 09:39 PM
StarNick wrote:
"They took the rifle and now they want it to be a heavy weapon and not a rifle at all. I am totally not down with that. It should be a rifle. Rifle skills should enhance the use of this weapon and not heavy weapon skills."
If thats the case, then why even have the Proton Rifle certed for Master Commando? Shouldn't, at the least, a weapon thats in a profession use that same profession's specific weapon mods? I agree why cert'd at master commando... Would you not prefer the rocket launcher there?
What if the MIR took Heavy Weapon mods, how would you guys feel? Whichever way the ball rolls, theres going to be at least one profession's mods ruled out - eleminating desire to dabble (or in this case master) the given profession? We would not use it and as it is it will not be used anyway /shrug
Not the slightest bit. Our heavy weapons are a testament to that. Although they do not have specials of their own, they power-up other profession's range mods. Ourselves, and any other range profession benefits from that and gives us all an incentive to dabble or master ranged professions. It was more of a rude surprise that the Proton Rifle that the rifleman community was waiting for was at literally the last second yanked from us.
Now, also remember that pretty much all of our Heavy Weapons are AoE attacks. The Proton Rifle would be one of the few weapons we have that won't have the AoE-like qualities of our heavy weapons. But because its a rifle...we'll be forced to take up rifleman to be proficient with it, as opposed to already being proficient with it as a MC as a MR would be with the T-21 rifle.
Now, a rifleman would only master commando if he/she chooses to simply attain the cert - and the in the long run, would profit more than a Commando who wanted to say pick up carbineer or pistoleer skills, or TKA. Why should a master cert weapon require the specific mods of another profession? Isn't that a bit illogical? same reason that the LLC uses rifle mods and the Proton Carb uses carbineer mods. They are rifles and carbines - they are not part of the the carbineer tree nor the rifleman tree. And Look at Squadleaders - pistols rifles and carbines and no skill mods whatsoever other then generic to use them.
If its heavy weapon mod specific, then the costs/gains would be equal for both an MC and a MR, but if its rifle mod specific they won't - unless if its a MC/MR template (and not EVERY rifleman nor EVERY commando would want that right?)
Look, Im sorry that you guys got dissappointed because the Devs took the Proton Rifle away and I don't want to sound like Im being mean or critizing...but if the devs place a rifle in our master box and seem to be making it as into a heavy weapon...then let it take heavy weapon specific mods. Us gaining that cert was a surprise, and if we had a choice many commandos would have wanted the proton carbine or...later on, the underslung carbine...
Edit: And with BH's having only their general mods...I would also say that they should be given at least some specific mods! But, thats for another post.
- Smuggler - pistols - use pistol skills
- SL - pistols/rifle/carbines - use pistol/rifle/carbine skills
- BH - pistols/rifle/carbines - use pistol/rifle/carbine skills
- commando - rifle - uses heavy weapon skills????? this would be the odd one out.
Ackehece wrote:
StarNick wrote:
"They took the rifle and now they want it to be a heavy weapon and not a rifle at all. I am totally not down with that. It should be a rifle. Rifle skills should enhance the use of this weapon and not heavy weapon skills."
If thats the case, then why even have the Proton Rifle certed for Master Commando? Shouldn't, at the least, a weapon thats in a profession use that same profession's specific weapon mods? I agree why cert'd at master commando... Would you not prefer the rocket launcher there?
What if the MIR took Heavy Weapon mods, how would you guys feel? Whichever way the ball rolls, theres going to be at least one profession's mods ruled out - eleminating desire to dabble (or in this case master) the given profession? We would not use it and as it is it will not be used anyway /shrug
Not the slightest bit. Our heavy weapons are a testament to that. Although they do not have specials of their own, they power-up other profession's range mods. Ourselves, and any other range profession benefits from that and gives us all an incentive to dabble or master ranged professions. It was more of a rude surprise that the Proton Rifle that the rifleman community was waiting for was at literally the last second yanked from us.
Now, also remember that pretty much all of our Heavy Weapons are AoE attacks. The Proton Rifle would be one of the few weapons we have that won't have the AoE-like qualities of our heavy weapons. But because its a rifle...we'll be forced to take up rifleman to be proficient with it, as opposed to already being proficient with it as a MC as a MR would be with the T-21 rifle.
Now, a rifleman would only master commando if he/she chooses to simply attain the cert - and the in the long run, would profit more than a Commando who wanted to say pick up carbineer or pistoleer skills, or TKA. Why should a master cert weapon require the specific mods of another profession? Isn't that a bit illogical? same reason that the LLC uses rifle mods and the Proton Carb uses carbineer mods. They are rifles and carbines - they are not part of the the carbineer tree nor the rifleman tree. And Look at Squadleaders - pistols rifles and carbines and no skill mods whatsoever other then generic to use them.
If its heavy weapon mod specific, then the costs/gains would be equal for both an MC and a MR, but if its rifle mod specific they won't - unless if its a MC/MR template (and not EVERY rifleman nor EVERY commando would want that right?)
Look, Im sorry that you guys got dissappointed because the Devs took the Proton Rifle away and I don't want to sound like Im being mean or critizing...but if the devs place a rifle in our master box and seem to be making it as into a heavy weapon...then let it take heavy weapon specific mods. Us gaining that cert was a surprise, and if we had a choice many commandos would have wanted the proton carbine or...later on, the underslung carbine...
Edit: And with BH's having only their general mods...I would also say that they should be given at least some specific mods! But, thats for another post.
- Smuggler - pistols - use pistol skills
- SL - pistols/rifle/carbines - use pistol/rifle/carbine skills
- BH - pistols/rifle/carbines - use pistol/rifle/carbine skills
- commando - rifle - uses heavy weapon skills????? this would be the odd one out.
Acke, we both have excellent points on the matter, most of the commandos (in my opinion) would think of the proton rifle as a "heavy weapon" as the devs consider it "commando-esque". We're already, and always will be the odd man out in terms of our heavy weapons...which sucks for balancing, and concerns such as this.
What if the devs take a route with the proton rifle such as they did with the HAR? Where its a rifle...but its also a heavy weapon? Until we know exactly what mods the proton rifle will take...our concerns here are pure speculation and hopes...
My main point though is that, just because it was originally a cert in rifleman shouldn't be a means to push for it to continue with rifle mods, even if the devs are looking to make it more of a heavy weapon.
I honestly am worried about whether or not specific weapon mods are weighed more than general...if they are, I still favor proton rifle being heavy weapon specific. BUT if thats not the case, then (ironically) the speeds/accuracies will be just about the same for a MC/MR, with rifles taking a slight lead in accuracy/speed by about +30 accuracy/+20 speed, if they picked up commando which from BH or Smuggler, has slightly less general range mods than commandos. Coincidence? We can only wonder...
Message Edited by StarNick on 04-08-2005 11:51 PM
maxtheusher wrote:
Actually I think the answer as to why it SHOULD be a Heavy weapon is in the profession mods. The Argument that the LLC is treated as a rifle falls short, because all of BH's mods are General. General Speed, General Accuracy. Commando has Heavy Weapons mods. Sure it's got SOME General Accuracy, but no speed mods. Thus the Commandos Master level weapon, and the only one of their weapons that won't aggro the whole room, would be severely crippled if classified as a rifle. Having only basic marksman mods for it... unless you took up Rifleman, is something no other Master level weapon (that I'm aware of) would suffer from. The HAR has always been a heavy weapon, it uses heavy weapon mods, and yet it has Rifle right in the name.
- The pistol at the top of combat medic
if you allow for them
- bounty hunter
- smuggler
- squad leader
all have master level weapons that they need to go outside of their professions to get skills and specific mods for.