Rifleman Archive
Thread: Even more Pist off rifleman
<i>So we are to disregard this statement, and only look at when you ended up being bested in combat??
Should Rifleman get Nerfed because of how well you did for 6 hours? Why shouldnt each and every person who you killed run back to their professional board screaming Nerf Rifleman because one killed them.
Your complaint, or let me rephrase that, your excuse for being killed was because of the damage of a weapon that the Dev's have already stated will be Nerfed.
I am sorry that I dont "feel" for your loss. If you can kill people for 6 hours straight and it takes one guy with amazing items to kill you, then I would hazzard the guess that Rifleman are pretty **edit** good, wouldnt you say the same?
For the sheep that just eat this kind of post up, I feel so sorry for you. - SilverLobo said.</i>
Why don't you read the original post again buddy. It seems I never called a nerf or even brought down the rifleman class. All I said was that I was getting outdamage by a pistol with ease. Its not an excuse and if it was then what the hey. As for the fact that I said that I was glad that FWGS thats its getting nerf, it was just something I said to make myself feel better. Frankly I really dont give a **edit** if they nerf the pistol or not, the reason why I PvP is to have fun and when I was getting owned I laugh at myself because I couldn't beat a measly Gunfighter/Smuggler.
I respect the person that owned me 5 times in a row a lot, not a lot of players can do that much of a consistent damage or a consistent incap to me within a 20 minute span. I never said that we suck, I find it a challenge to find a very good Pvp'er out in my server. Often times I run around Anchorhead trying to kill rebels with a CDEF Rifle since my T21 is exteremely powerful and its hard to find a challenging opponent out there.
So before you start flaming someone Lobo, read the whole post not just little snippets of it, because you make yourself look incredibly dumb. Astute people would know that none of my original post put down the rifleman. Of course I was incredibly pist at myself for getting my arse beat by a pistoleer but now that I think of it makes me want to play this game even more to become the top of the pecking order again. This gives me a the stride to make my character better get himhigher qualityweapons to combat those gunfighters.
By the way Lobo whatexactly are you trying to get at? Are you trying to say something? Because your post is quite redundantand has no point what-so-ever.
Jayjon Firestorm
swirly_commode wrote:
time to go back to 100% PvP damage yet?
No. Fights are MUCH more competitive now with one shot kills being the exception and not the rule. Why would we go back?
SaladinVizier wrote:
a master BH takes 212 skill pints to get. a master rifleman takes 92. (140 if master marksman also). for them to have the ability to own in pvp seems nesecary in my opinion. if any proffession that only takes 92 skill points to go up could beat a BH (which you can if you do it right) would just seem extremely unbalanced.
I'm getting rather tired of hearing this skill point arguement. So should a Master Artisan, Master Entertainer, Master Weaponsmith be the equal of the BH? They use the same number of skill points.Of course not. Because they aren't combat classes. But almost half the BH's skill are tied up in non-combat related skills. The whole scout tree is non-combat related as is the Investigation line. BH is a HYBRID class. That means a combination of two things (combat and scout in this case).
So before a BH starts whining remember that and take into account two things. Actual skill points used on combat skills and the XP needed related to combat skills. BH should and are good in single combat. Even in some larger groups.But they are NOT a pure combat class. Their effectiveness comes from their versatility. They use a number of different weapons depending on the circumstance. They should not win the vast majority of combat if they and their player opponent are both using the same weapon and the opponent is a master.
Their arguement about skill points works against them in that case. Lets say they go against a Master Pistoleer and are both using pistols only. The Master BH has used 35 skillpoints in pistol from the Marksman line and 21 in the BH line. That is 56 skill points of pistol. The Master Pistoleer has used 102 skill points on pistols only. So that's almost double the difference. BH uses the same on carbine as does the Master Carbineer. The big difference is of course heavy weapons and rifles. Where BH spend far less than a Master Riflemen (BH only spend on rifle in marksman) or Master Commando (BH only spend on hvy weapons in BH tree). Before someone jumps and says that the BH has to Master Marksman and I should include all those skill points in the calculation. That isn't relevant to my point. It's about skill points spent on the weapon being used only.
What the BH does excel at is the versatility. So they have problem with the Master Pistoleer. They switch to a LLC and hit. They switch to carbine and do some special. That is their strength. But this skill point arguement is complete BS.
waste you missed the point of the skill points. it takes them that many skill points to master ONE proffession. put asside the marksman and scout. those are in other words just more tree's in the BH tree as far as im concerend. and yes you are entirely correct that a bh isnt all combat, he is a versatile foe with many weapons that he can use extremely skillfully. and the whole entertainer artisan thing was quite a stupid comparison.
"They should not win the vast majority of combat if they and their player opponent are both using the same weapon and the opponent is a master."
well the bh and there opponent using the same weapon? that only takes them down to a pistoleer and a carbanier. in either case if the BH wanted to use a LLC on them to kill them fine, if he wanted to destroy them with there own weapon FINE. it took him far more skill pionts to get to the position so he could usea weapon as he does. put aside how the heck the skill points were spent. a pistoleer only has to spend 49 skill points to go up in pistol to get fanshot. a bh has to spend 169 points to get eye shot and will have to spend the whole 212 when they bump it to master. the skill points are extremely relevant. dispite what the skill points were spent on to get that master title. and just on the side note, if the devs are trying to make this game as real as to the movies as possible giving bh the ability to kick ass is what is needed. boba fett would freakin hunt jedi's man. i dont believe there was anywhere in the movies where a Master Gunfighter was out killin jedi of anykind.
My personal and only gripe as a rifleman (or any class, but i love my rifle guy)is that anyone can spam a shot which means the fight is over. As a rifleman i die loads thats not a problem to me, but it detracts from the fun of PVP when you cant even see to shoot striaght for the entire duration of the fight.
I think balanced PVP should mean that a certain class will 90% of the time beat others, but all classes should have their nemessis, rather than be able to kill everyone. This while not strictly balanced (cause every fight would be a draw taken to it's extreme) would encourage group play and posibly be more fun.
However i'm sure as knockdown was similar in ruining the fun factor and i guess skill factor, as you couldn't do anything about it, will eventually be changed to a timer or something......Flame away.
SaladinVizier wrote:
waste you missed the point of the skill points. it takes them that many skill points to master ONE proffession. put asside the marksman and scout. those are in other words just more tree's in the BH tree as far as im concerend. and yes you are entirely correct that a bh isnt all combat, he is a versatile foe with many weapons that he can use extremely skillfully. and the whole entertainer artisan thing was quite a stupid comparison.
Incorrect. It takes them that many skill points to master three professions. They have to master scout and marksman. Why put aside marksman and scout? Because they are begining professions? If you want to put them aside as mastered then you'll also have to discount their skill point cost.
If you want to put aside how the skill points are spent than shouldn't a Master Entertainer, Master Artisan, Master Weaponsmith be equal to the BH? They've spent the exact same number of skill points. Of course we'd have to put aside how and what the points were spent as you suggested.
My point about dueling with the same weapon vs a weapon master. My point is that a BH is jack or all trades. They are familiar with lots of weapons but Master of none. A weapons master on the other hand is finely attuned to their specific weapon. The BH strength is they have different weapons they can switch to as the situation arises. A weapon specific master can not. They can only use a rifle, carbine, or pistol depending on their specialty.
Your point about Boba. He did try to hunt a Jedi. He ended up in the Sarlac pit. His target was only a Jedi padawan too.Maybe a low level knight at best. Though he was thrown in the pit by Solo. So I could also argue that he was defeated by a Master Smuggler. Fett never bested Solo in any of the movies.
As for Master Gunslingers not hunting Jedi. Not that he had many choices considering the only Jedi were Palpatine, Vader and Skywalker. Well I can show you a clip where a group of lowly droids were wiping the Jedi out (Attack of Clones arena scene). A scene where another Master BH (Jango) is rather easily defeated by a Jedi Master. Also Jango was defeated on the pad by Obi Wan (a Jedi Knight) rather handily also. If you took Boba's help out of the equation Jango would have been killed or captured rather easily. Seems to me if some droids can than so could a Master Gunslinger. But then again how many Master Gunslingers were even in the movies? None. Han Solo is a Smuggler with some pistol skills for sure. But there were no Master Riflemen, Carbineers, Pistoleers, Pikemen, Fencers, TKA's, or a host of other player professions that were shown in the movies.
Sorry but your arguement doesn't wash. You can't exclude what the skill points were used on. Nor were there enough refrences to the professions in the movies (havne't read all the books) to come to the conclussions you have about Jedi and Pistoleers. Or even BH and Jedi.
this thread has gone in quite a few different directions.. i'll chip in on the bounty hunter topic -
waste is right -they spend a lot of skill points on non-combat related stuff. (Investigation, scout). but they should be a powerful and fun class to play, and they should be very competitive against other combat professions. (every class has their weaknesses, and BH is/should be no different).
now> if you get JUST master rifleman, and migrate your stats right and get a helmet, maybe some armor, you are probably able to stand up to BH's, if you play it right. (don't fight at 9m range...)
however, if you get Master Marksman as well you will be well on your way to winning consistantly. you've spent a LOT of skill points on just combat -and you are rewarded by being able to fire specials near or at the speed cap. play it right, you will win a lot of the time.
if you get TKA, that's also a very good advantage... there's lots of great combinations with rifleman.
BH's arent' invincible by any means. great jack of all trades - still a master of none. as they should be, unless they spend more points and go up pistol or carb, etc. (probably losing out on investigation). if that's what a BH wants to do, more power to him! I'll still give him a good run for his money with master mark/master rifle/doc combination - winning more than i lose.
point being - don't cry about BH's, we have the skills and the skill points to be able to very effectively stand up to them.
If you want to fix rifleman you don't have to nerf anyone elses class, all you have to do is improve/fix ours.
The rifleman is a stalker, shoots from long distance from a concealed location, his job is to be invisible while instilling disorder and chaos into platoons of soldiers at camp.
We were never ment to get 64m from our target in order to begin the fight.
I think the class is almost perfect save a few small problems.
First, we need better range I'd be happy if the rifleman could fire to a max range of at least 150 with a scope and 100 on a rifle without a scope. That is asking too much I know I am going to hear it, but surely a rifle should be able to shoot further with accuracy. Mostly I feel the rifleman should have a longer range because honestly us rifleman just shouldn't wear armor, seeing as it reduces our mind pools regeneration rates by far too much and if we miss our shot and they are 64m away then we lose, just like that.
Second, fix Concealed shot, cover should take us off radar or else it cannot be used in pvp or battlefields because all it does is screws you when you try and flee backwards at the pistoleer running your way. I am not saying we shouldn't be targetable, just not on radar, if we couldn't be targeted then it would be too powerful.
And last.... LETS HAVE SOME MORE VARIETY... is it just me or is almost EVERY rifle Energy Based. if a rifleman is stalking a player and he studies him and notes his armor, he should have the option of taking a weapon that he knows that persons armor won't absorb. Hang on guys I'll just grab my jawa Ion rifle....pew! pew!
Make these changes and in the faction war the rifleman with his wits is king, but no... we still won't win Duels. If you let your prey know your comming then you already lost.
Well thats my Post...
Wolvenkind wrote:
The rifleman is a stalker, shoots from long distance from a concealed location, his job is to be invisible while instilling disorder and chaos into platoons of soldiers at camp.
You are confusing a Riflemen with a Sniper. A Riflemen is someone that uses a rifle. Every military is full of Riflemen, they are called the infantry.
I'd also love to see longer idstances. It just isn't going to happen. The DEV's are way to worried about the kiting issue this would cause. If a riflemen can open up at say 150m as you suggest. What chance would any melee person have? All I have to do is take two or three shots, get up and run. He'd never close as it stands now. Same with the other ranged combat classes unless you increased their range too. Which only makes the kiting issue even worse.
The conceal idea is good and doable. Make the person go off the radar when they are prone and using Take Cover. Have the alertness skill actualy mean something. Have it increase the chance of detecting someone that is under cover.
Weapon variety would be great. All rifles do energy. Two rifles are bugged as they shouldn't. One is the Tusken rifle which should be kinetic and the other is the Spraystick which should be acid probably.
Umm Saladin, I regulary beat Master BH's, with my 92 skill point profession. And I'm only a 0/1/2/1 TKA. I've seen a TKM Vs. a Bounty hunter, the fight was over in 3 seconds, with the BH incapped, and the TKM barely injured.
it is true that Riflemen are not necessarily snipers, however, the difference is simply how far you take Rifleman(at least in SWG)
and about Melee.... Why should a Meleer stand a chance against a rifleman... thats kinda the point isn't it. I want a balanced game yes but the rifleman is simply the Bane of the melee man. I mean the idea that every class must be near completely equal is just not good for game play. The Idea is simply that a group of fighters compliments eachother, enhancing cooperation and overall fun.
I don't expect the devs to do anything like that though, but what I really want to see, is the concealment. if I could have one of the two I would choose that.