Rifleman Archive
Thread: 2/3 of a football field is our max range?
InvincibleOverlord wrote:
"It is not practical gamewise to have sniper rifles that reach 1000m. But I agree with the 1/3-2/3 idea. Pistoleers would start screaming "nerf" for this, but it makes perfect sense to make pistol 32m, carbine 64m and rifle 96m. That would be well within the 128m for detecting things."
"There is the argument that rifles will generally do a greater amount of damage than pistols or carbines of the same class , but with all the different weapons out there, and slicing, that doesn't really hold much water either."
I think they need to extend the rifle range to 100M. Carbine can be 65M, pistols 35M. Rifles don't realistically do that much damage. Yes, I have hit enemies with 1700+ damage before, but thats not every shot! I like at the combat chat channel, and my brother, who uses the pistol, will get in a few shots for every one of mine! By the time it's all said and done, he's done as much damage as I have, sometimes more.
Were I to change the game, I would say 100m for everything. Then make the RIFLE effective at 60-100, the CARBINE effective at 30-70, and the PISTOL effective at 0-40. When I say effective ranges, I dont mean what they have now.I mean a Master Pistoleer shooting at 80m while prone would hit 1 in 4-5 or something, and a carbine at 100m or5m would hit (prone) maybe 1 in 2-3. A rifleman at10m should be similarly low. Of course, these wouldnt have to be absolutes on the range value, there would be some overlap. A rifle at 50m would still be effective, just not to the same extent. This is kinda what the tried to do, but the bonuses are only really bad for the rifle, it seems. Pistols and carbines that I've seen have had no trouble at 64m. Whereas my rifle when next to a target is incredibly ineffective. So they need to actually make long ranged shots for pistols and to some extent rifles a pain in the butt. Basically, add in penalties that hurt all three ranged weapon types when outside their range, and hurt them all by a lot.
If I were to lock in 3 different maximum range values, I'd have to say: Rifle-100m, Carbine-75m, Pistol-50m. Putting pistol lower would really nerf the class beyond thought. It would take them forever just to get into range if a rifle could shoot 100 and a pistol 33. 100, 80, and 60 would also be workable numbers. Making the rifle too high means that if a rifleman with HS3 saw 3 master pistoleers at 100m, he would probably kill all of them before they had a chance to even return fire, which is unrealistic. Reasonably they would be able to throw off a few long ranged shots to at least make him keep his head down. Admittedly, in RL a skilled rifleman would very easily take down 3 guys with pistols, but we were aiming for balance, not uberness, if I recall, hehe.
Anyway, just some opinions.
To bring you upwith thecurrent status of a rifleman and why it sucks to be one.
This is something that happened with me yesterday.
I am now a novice rifleman (finally) however, near my home town on Talus an Imperial camp had been set up.
Now myself (rifleman) and 2 of my friends both pistoleers, where fighting the same imp, now this is the kicker.
I was prone, at 60m with my laser rifle hitting HS2 for about 1k per hit every 7 seconds, which isnt bad for a rifleman. The best part, my 2 "pistoleer" friends where kneeling right next to me and hitting the imp for 500 health every 2 seconds.
Thats right, they were right next to me using a pistol, yet i am the one that has to be better at range. Yet the minute the imp started to runs towards us my accuracy decresed (due to ideal range) yet my pistoleer friends where there firing away actually increasing there chances of success becuase the target was getting closer. And i wont even talk about the fact that i take double melle damage nor the fact the my chance of hitting anything is near impossible while i am on the move.
Hell i was doing a nest of vynocks yesterday and when one was coming up to me it killed me, not becuaseim crap, but becuase of the rate fo fire on the rifle, the lack of accuracy when upclose, and the double melle damage. And do i accept that, yes, its part of being a rifleman, we suck at close range, which is the way it should be.
But the current situation is crazy, there is no benefit in being a rifleman over a pistoleer as it currently stands. We can all shot the same distance, yet have many disadvantages.
Im not saying lets make Rifleman Uber, im saying lets make it a fairer system. I dont think it is possible due to game mechanics for us to go out to 100m, but like i have posted before, i think pistols, carbines and rifles should all have limits.
Pistol range - ideal 20m - Max Range 40m - with alterations - ideal 30m - Max 50m
Carbines - Ideal 30mm - Max Range 50m - with alteratiosn - Ideal 40m - Max 60m
Rifles - Ideal 50m - Max Range 60m - with alterations - Ideal 65m Max 75m
What i mean by alterations is when you take into consideration of the fact that weaponsmiths need to craft high end weapons. There should be certain pistol and carines out there that are of high quality that have an expanded range. And at max range the pistol should have the same diffenciencies that a rifleman has up close, i.e. the closer you are to max range the less likely you are to hit anything.
These are my thouhgts on this - as it stands we are extremly disadvanted in a hunting situation, in PvP i can see us being too powerful, but at the moment we just dont know, we need to have the higher end armour out and about and personal shields etc.. before we can make a decision on all that. But we certainlly need something for us to go our way inregards hunting creatures and NPC's.
As it stands we get Owned by anything, while others laugh at us becuase we got incapped or slain by something so small. Its not a lack of skills, it is the way the game is designed, add to that they half of the skills we strive to learn dont do what one would think they should do. Take Cover the prime example. Take cover my ass, only if you are one - on - one is there any benefit of take cover, same with mask scent, that is a joke as well. Anyways they are my thoughts on the rifleman profession.
Feel free to begin flaming
One thought our weaponsmith friends may like or not...
Someone mentioned something along the lines of better rifles getmore range. Why not have it based upon how the rifle is made? Maybe use experimentation to add a scope so it is part of the weapon? I'd pay a higher price for an extra 35 max range20 ideal(or something like that). Dunno if this would be feasible, i don't know much about weaponsmithing, except which end the red stuff comes out of.
"Someone mentioned something along the lines of better rifles getmore range."
Better Rifles get better Ideal DMG. But what people dont notice is that from 64 meters out a pistoleer can hit 90 percent of the time. Yet at 20 meters away, we hit less then 50 percent. Currently I dont have logs to back this up, its all from expereince, but I DO intend to test this.
"as it stands we are extremly disadvanted in a hunting situation,"
Couldnt agree more, currently XP is based how much DMG you do. At the Tuskan fort the most grouped place I can find. I can get a Raider to half mind before it drops, yet I can still only get 300 XP, while others get 500-700. XP for Rifleman in normal groups we are at an extreme disadvantage.
"And i wont even talk about the fact that i take double melle damage"
It is set this way becuase of our extremely high up front dmg. Its meant this way, becuase a Rifleman is suppost to be at a distance, and should stay at a distance. If hes coming up close to you, dont just sit there. Begin moving even though your accuracy decreases, stay away from him/it. Another reason is the ability to cover, you can get multiple shots off on a mob while in cover. Although you cant use Head Shot, you have conceal shot.But for that reason, were a class thats set even more to solo. Wehave all the abilities tosolobetter then any other class.
hehe
it might out sound like i was complaining about double melle but i didnt mean to.
As a rifleman i expect something like that, we should suck at melle, but what gives me the **edit**s is when a pistoleer stands next to me and does the same damage as me yet i take double damage and he doesnt.
If they where to limit the range of pistol and carbines as i previously stated i would have absoultely no grips with the rifleman profession as it stands at the moment. Its all part of being a rifleman.
I have come to the conclusion that a rifleman is there for a one on one experience if hunting along, i can take down huf duns, kimas, well just about most things if im in a one on one, but the minute there is a group io get my ass handed to me on a plate and as a rifleman i except that. Its part of being a rifleman.
ANyways, as much as we bitch and moan as it is, i think there is more of movement to nerf us more, inregards mind damage, that there is to limit the range of pistols and carbines. If we get nerfed and are unable to do mind damage i shall hand in my rifle and go to pistols i think. Will be a shame but a nerf to mind damage and we are finsihed.
Right on, I 100% agree with either increased range or lowering the pistols range, and if not that then get rid of the increased melle damage.
RandomPratt wrote:
Gimmie a break! I mean the average distance of combat encounters in the real world is over 75m and is commonly up to 300m. Our combat rifles today have complete capability to accuaretly shoot up to 500m open sight without a scope. I know that its not possible to have the same in the game, but 64m is way to low for a rifle... Heck thats even low for pistols. I can myself shoot pretty well up to 75m with a 9mm. I think rifles should be able to shoot at least 100m if not more.
I posted this in another thread but it seems more applicable here:
While I completely agree with you on this I think this is a limitation of the game design itself. If I remember correctly in the beta the range was bigger than 64 m but the max range for a mob to attack you was 64 m thus letting you pick mobs off with no chance of them coming after you. My understanding of why they didn't have creatures go aggressive once hit, even if from outside 64 m, was to limit the load on the servers.
Like mentioned above, we do deal mind damage. This might not mean so much in PvE, but it's huge in PvP.
Although bounty hunters can deal mind damage while wielding a pistol. Our only real advantage, none of our disadvantages. It does take a lot of skill points to master bounty hunter though.
I completely agree. Riflemen need more range. Even if its small like another 10m that would be something. If this is a complete impossibility then they gotta cut the accuracy of pistols and carbines at long range. Not to mention all the flawed/bugged"special moves" a rifleman gets.
Please fix these issues!