Rifleman Archive
Thread: Warping when going prone
This is a crazy issue. Please read all the way through because I'm curious what others think about my conclusions. I've already posted this to general discussion but it seems to be floating off into obscurity after about 5 minutes, so I thought I'd post to a forum that'sprone to be interested.
I opened a customer service ticked on the prone warping issue last week and got a response 2 days ago that there was nothing they could do but /bug it (and of course they warned me that they wouldn't respond again). For kicks I came here and searched for "prone warping" and got over 500 thread results, starting from June. Now I'm seriously doubting that doing a /bug will do anything that hasn't been done hundreds of times over the past few months.
I've been dealing withmob warping since Everquest, so I guess that just doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is when my character suddenly isn't where I told him to be.
And actually, I'm not quite so certain the two warping problems are related. Here's why:
Mob warping is an instant thing. The server knows the monster is in the camp, you know the monster is in the camp, and then he's right next to you. Anyone with you sees the same thing, the monster just appears there. Even pets will occasionally appear directly on their target, and everyone sees that. That isn't lag, that's game mechanics. For one reason or another, both the client and the server expect that monster to be able to "warp" right to you. Yes, it sucks, but I've dealt with it so long it doesn't seem like a big deal to deal with it again in this game. I'd rather they ran through walls instead, but hey, that's me.
Prone warping seems to be something else entirely.
Here's an example: My girlfriend and I are hunting shaupauts. We are sharing a DSL connection, so we can just look to the side and see the other's computer. I run up to long range of our next target, 64m, and go right to prone. Without exception, I warp back to where I was standing a few seconds ago, invariably out of range becauseI was out of range a few seconds ago. Now, here's the funny part: My girlfriend just watched me run up toward that shaupaut, go prone, and then crawl very quickly right back to where I was before. She watched my three stormtroopers follow me up there and then run back after me.
Now, this requires at least three things. My client must have sent my position at 64mfrom the shaupaut to the server. The server recognized my position at maximum range of the shaupaut. Then, the server sent that data to my girlfriend's computer so that she sees me up there before the warp.
If it was lag, that wouldn't happen. In other words, there's no way her computer could know where I was without the server knowing.
So, what prone warping is, I'm guessing, is a correction. Yes, I was there, the server told everyone already, but now I'm prone. What happens if the server asks how I got there and it doesn't check to see whether I was standing during the movement? It assumes I've been crawling the whole time, that I somehowtricked the server into thinking I ran, knows that I shouldn't be able to crawl that far in that short amount of time, and then sends a correction to all involved clients with my updated position (back where I was last time it knew I was standing?!)
Here are a couple tests that seem to work with this theory. Try em out yourself =)
If you just run up and kneel, the server must know that you couldn't have moved while you were kneeling, so there's no need for a correction, which would be why kneeling doesn't make you warp.
If you run up and kneel, then go prone, you still warp. It doesn't check against crawling until you go prone.
If you run up, kneel, stand again, and THEN go prone, you will not warp! (Make sure you stand fully, then go prone or there's a possibility you'll warp anyway) You're forcing the server to acknowledge that you were standing before you went prone, so no correction is necessary.
If you run up,wait fora reasonable amount of time (somewhere close to what it would take to get to the same place by crawling), and then go prone, you will not warp.
Fun eh?
Does this theory help explain what you've been experiencing? Maybe I'm way off, but I'm hoping I'm right on and maybe someone can pick up this ball and run with it.
I'd love to hear what you guys think =)
Sounds right to me, but I'm not in the know.
I also sent a ticket in on it. There reply was that they knew about it and were adressing the problem.
i dont go prone.
what i do hate though is when i take a shot at a mob from 61m and all of a sudden hes standing on top of me.
I have no idea what the hell causes it but I know if you walk up to the target, stand for 4 seconds, then go prone, you don't warp.
Also, pets warping: There is a pathing bug you can use in PvP or PvE with a pet. Say you're up to 100 meters from a target. Stand behind a wall, or a stone, or a log, something that provides cover, with your pet in the exact same spot as you. As long as there's no line of sight between you and the target. Now, target the, uh, the target, and give the attack command. Instead of running around the obstacle the pet will warp to the target. It's my guess that pathing issues cause mobs to warp to you. I once thought I was smart and while fighting stormtroopers in a running gun battle I would angle so that a tree or something broke our line of sight so I could keep running while not taking hits. But the Imperials take advantage of this and warp right to me.
Don't ask me why Quake (1992) had NPCs that could negotiate game obstacles without warping, but SWG cannot.
-- YP
yup, i was fightin an arachne yesterday with a tree between us. it was workin, but the arachne would eventualy warp straight through the tree causeing me to have to run around the tree again. i eventualy got incapped and the arachne ran off.
the arachne did wind up dead though, after i ran away in the other direction.
Here is a weird idea to check out. As far as I know, I have never warped. And I solo PvE almost exclusively. I go prone around 60m, though. Maybe it has something to do with 64m as opposed to slightly closer? This is probably my most typical scenario: Turn on maskscent, run to 63 to 59 m, go prone, open fire. You would think that at one point though, if it were a 64m thing, that I would have done that. This is definitely weird. I count my blessings that I don't warp, but it sounds like a crappy bug and I feel for ya!
Thanks for the idea Wayne, but I'm afraid not. It actually happens regardless of whether I've got a target,the 64mthing was just an example. If I just decide to run 10 feet while waiting for a shuttle and go prone, I'll warp back to where I started from.
That does bring up an interesting point though. It doesn't seem to happen to everyone.
The posts I've gone through that mention it say that they'reconnecting to the internetwith aDSL, as am I.
Stranger yet, it doesn't happen on my girlfriend's computer. At all. She's sharing the same DSL I'm on.
So maybe it's some combination of DSL and some other component?
God I wish someone that could do something about it bothered reading this stuff. A little communication could go a real long way =( Or maybe if they ever replied asking for more info on bug reports.
You know what's weird...
For the whole time I was in the scouting tree and didn't have conceal shot in the rifleman tree (while I was novice rifleman and one box of sniper line) I never warped.
As soon as I got conceal shot it started happening every single time. I can run up to the same mob 5 times and go prone and 5 times I'll warp back. EVERY time.
I really think it has something to do with conceal shot. Now mind you I don't have to actually USE conceal shot, just have it.
Anyone warping every single time who doesn't have conceal shot?
Aldeon any way to test this without some of us giving up lines and having to regrind them?
I've seen the exact same thing Doremar with my girlfriend, DSL, both PCs in the same room. You crawl super fast (just like the "spider walk" scene in the re-release of the Exorcist) back to your original position.
She thought I was crawling that fast because I have wayfaring 4 as a ranger....heh, I only wish I could crawl that fast all the time.
Well I don't know if this is related but this happens to me all the time, well ever since the first big patch, and sometimes it is irratating other times I am screaming.I will be running walking etc. and I will suddenly be 50 or so meters back, I really don't know if it is lag or what but it has gotten me killed, because mobs will run to where I end up warping too.
I really can't see it being lag as I am on a cable connection with 1.6 p4 512 ddr memory and 64mb vid card, a computer I constructed myself. If anyone has had this happen or have any suggestions to stop this please tell me.
My guild really hates it because I will be running along with them and then just not be there, although I have never asked them what it looks like to them.
The weird thing to me is that it never happened until after the first "big" patch, and I have been playing since day 1.
For those of you who it is happening to, Maybe we can find some common values:
It doesnt sound connection related, so I would drop that line of discussion.
Please re-post, at a minimum,the following information:
- Level of Rifleman
- Level of all other professions
- Your Rifle crawl speed value
- Anything else that might be pertinent
It doesnt happen to me, but, as an example,I would supply the following info if it did...
Rifleman: 4/2/3/4
Marksman: Master
Medic: Master
Scout: 4/0/1/1
Artisan: very little bit
Unfortunately I'm at work and cant check my 'rifle crawl speed' value.