Rifleman Archive

In the beginning, there was the Armor Guide. The Armor Guide was written by one of the Devs, presumably one of the ones involved in actually implementing the way armor worked.

According to the Armor Guide, Armor and Armor Piercing worked like this when the AP of the weapon was equal to or higher than the AR of the critter:
Floaty Damage = Base Damage * [(1.25)^(AP-AR)] * (1 - Resistance)

According to the Armor Guide, Armor and Armor Piercing worked like this when the AP of the weapon was less than the AR of the critter:
Floaty Damage = Base Damage * [(0.50)^(AR-AP)] * (1 - Resistance)

And so it was that many of the brethren and sistren heeded these holy formulas, and took them to heart, and decreed that they were good.

But then the spectres of fear and doubt entered the Garden when, a few weeks ago, one of the Devs made the claim that this was NOT, in fact, how Armor and Armor Piercing worked in the game.

According to the Dev who disputed the Holy Formulas, Armor and Armor Piercing actually worked like THIS when the AP of the weapon was equal to or higher than the AR of the critter:
Floaty Damage = Base Damage * {1 - [(Resistance) * (0.50)^(AP-AR)]}

And according to this same Dev, Armor and Armor Piercing worked like THIS when the AP of the weapon was lower than the AR of the critter:
Floaty Damage = Base Damage * {1 - [(Resistance) * (1.25)^(AR-AP)]}

This particular Dev made the statement that this was how it ACTUALLY WORKED in the game as it stood at the time (9/24/03), and that it was the Armor Guide which was wrong. The Dev proclaimed that the Armor Guide would be changed to reflect the TRUE reality.

Upon that proclamation, many Seekers of Truth attempted to part the veil of confusion and determine which of the formulas was the TRUE formula. And, to make a long story short, it was determined that the Armor Guide had been right all along, the Holy Formulas were wrong, and the Dev who claimed otherwise was speaking through his buttcheeks.

But here's the thing...

What if he WASN'T speaking through his buttcheeks? What if they planned to "tweak" the combat engine by making (virtual) reality conform to the 2nd set of equations, and he was just getting a little ahead of he game?

The problem is that I simply cannot imagine how they could have introduced the current armor piercing bug without specifically monkeying with the armor piercing formulas in the combat engine. So it's not a huge stretch to think that maybe they were trying to change the Armor Piercing formulas to what the Dev claimed they were, and they just screwed it up somehow. Because as of last night, the combat engine was behaving in a manner VERY SIMILAR TO the way the Dev claimed it behaved.

The Dev claimed there was no AP bonus to damage, and lo and behold, as of last night there was no AP bonus to damage.

The Dev claimed that higher AP got you a reduction to the resistances, and lower AP got you an increase to the resistances. And while it's not actually working that way in practice, it certainly looks like it would work that way if they changed a few numbers around and switched a negative sign here or there.

So what I'm really worried about is that they really ARE going to try and foist off the 2nd set of formulas as "how the combat engine works" and make those formulas "reality."

"But Volsted!" you exclaim. "Why is that bad?"

I'm glad you asked.

Let's do some comparisons. Let's look at how each AP level would work vs. a Mantigrue Screecher (AR3, 20% Energy Resistance). To make the math easier, we will assume in each case that we have shot some critter once for 200 points of Base Damage.


T21 (AP3), Armor Guide Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * (1.25)^0 * (0.80) = 160

T21 (AP3), New Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * {1 - [(0.20) * (0.50)^0]} = 160


Laser Rifle (AP2), Armor Guide Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * (0.50)^1 * (0.80) = 80

Laser Rifle (AP2), New Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * {1 - [(0.20) * (1.25)^1]} = 150


Elite Carbine (AP1), Armor Guide Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * (0.50)^2 * (0.80) = 40

Elite Carbine (AP1), New Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * {1 - [(0.20) * (1.25)^2]} = 137


FWG5 Pistol (AP0), Armor Guide Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * (0.50)^3 * (0.80) = 20

FWG5 Pistol (AP0), New Formula
Floaty Damage = 200 * {1 - [(0.20) * (1.25)^3]} = 121

Check that out. Under the Armor Guide formula, a 200-point base damage hit from an AP3 weapon would do 8x the actual damage as a 200-point base damage hit from an AP0 weapon. Under the new formula, a 200-point base damage hit from an AP3 weapon would do 1.322x the actual damage as a 200-point base damage hit from an AP0 weapon.

That would be a HUGE reverse nerf for Riflemen. Low AP weapons would suddenly become significantly more powerful vs. armored critters, both compared to Armor Guide power levels, and compared to high AP weapons. The one area in which we shine -- Medium and Heavy AP -- would be gone.

Additionally (and I'll spare you any more of the gory math details here), what little armor piercing effectiveness we had left as a consequence of the new formula would -- counterintuitively -- become negated as resistances get smaller. A 200-point shot from a T21 vs. a critter with no Energy Resistance would generate 200 points of Floaty Damage, regardless of the AR of the critter. More importantly, so would a 200-point shot from any other Energy Based weapon, regardless of AP rating. A Scout Blaster (AP0) vs. an AR3 critter with no Energy Resistance would not get ANY DAMAGE PENALTY under the new formula for going up against a Heavy Armor critter.

Now, I don't know if the Devs are actually planning to implement the new formula. Maybe they're not. Maybe this was all just a huge mistake, and someone fatfingered a database entry, leaving us with the current mess. I sure hope so.

But it sure would be nice to find out definitively what their plans are, and maybe steer them away from the new formula if their plan is to implement it.

Because if you think our DPS compared to Pistoleers and Carbineers is bad NOW...

Thats exactly what i thought. They changed AP/AR system.

Now Commandos and BHs with light or none AP on their guns become another advantage over Rifleman/Carbine.

too many number head hurting.

Is this the reason that I now suck? Things that were blue, are now white, things that are white, are yellow...you get the point...Things i used to one shot? try 3 shots. Unfortunately, I still get the same xp, If this isn't some huge mistake my character is going to be completely worthless.

So basically AP is now just as worthless as cover, ah nice to know all the things that make riflemandifferent are of no value.

Seriously you all read the notes from out correspondant....... They are fixing it tomorrow....

VolstedGridban ,

Your are a genuis. No joke.

Please plaster this post on every other thread there out there. Make sure the BH's and the Pistoleers see it.

There is no doubt that this "sort of thing" could very easily be happening. Let's make sure that everybody knows what we think. They can start watching out for this "sneak nerf" within their own profession.

wow, are devs working against rifleman again

VIA LA RESISTANCE --- calling all riflemen we will rally together - use our "emmm cough cough" l337 sniping skills to incap and kill the devs imperal guards, storm into the sonySWGcompound (whichis located under threed) we will steal the formual and re write it, i was thinking somewhere along the line if ... muhahah if you don't have ammor and i shoot you with i T21 in the arm pop! foot well sorry mate but you wont be walking anywhere for a while and if i happen to hit you in head while ... lets not go there.

This is getting worse and worse... I am not even going to log back on tonight... and I have no idea when I will log back on. I'm getting rather angry at the stupid changes going on lately. Damage has now been MORE THAN HALVED!?!?!?! What the hell are they thinking? This is supposed to be a fix? How? I hope this isn't going to end up us (with nerf-guns) vs. them (with patriot missiles).

Perhaps after reading Aldeon's post, I think maybe I was a bit premature in my post, hehe, I'll wait and watch.

Basicly they improved all the guns in the game except the T-21

...just say that next time

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Zariell wrote:
Basicly they improved all the guns in the game except the T-21

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Well they haven't...yet.

And maybe they won't. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Maybe.

What scares me about this latest patch is they managed to gate every area of the game for me. That's a pretty impressive screwup 3 months into the game.