Rifleman Archive

So, how bout it?

Novice says: "2.5x melee damage sucks...this is our worst problem as a rifleman."

While masters who grinded all the way through the 2.5x dmg say...

Masters: "HAM costs, speed differences, and the short range weapon's (pistols) uncanny ability to hit consistantly at long range - our the worstproblems as a rifleman"

I see two fronts on this board:

The Masters

The Novices

Two completely different views on what changes need to take place for the benifit/balance of the professions. I, being in the Master category, steadily find myself agreeing with guys like Seflyn and SilverLobo on numerous threads all across the board. And I get very frustrated at the comments made by Novices who have not invested enough time/skill points into thisprofession to make an accurate suggestion as to what changes are needed.

I know Aldeon tries hard, but I do not agree with his decision to inform the Devs that 2.5x melee dmg was our number one issue. I think that was a bad Idea to let people vote. Of course the Novice is going to say an issue relating mostly to PvE, becuase he is currently working for more XP. The few Masters no longer need XP and are primarily concerned with PvP where melee does not come into play as often. (Yes, Commandos do melee, but that WILL be fixed)

No offense Aldeon, I like you, man, but I think you made an error in judgement thinking that letting the rifleman population choose for itself the top issues. There's that huge flaw in the equation which is Novices outnumber MastersI'd guess 10 to 1 easily.

Comments?

So we should serve the minority instead of the majority?

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Grahd_Plats wrote:

So, how bout it?

Novice says: "2.5x melee damage sucks...this is our worst problem as a rifleman."

While masters who grinded all the way through the 2.5x dmg say...

Masters: "HAM costs, speed differences, and the short range weapon's (pistols) uncanny ability to hit consistantly at long range - our the worstproblems as a rifleman"

I see two fronts on this board:

The Masters

The Novices

Two completely different views on what changes need to take place for the benifit/balance of the professions. I, being in the Master category, steadily find myself agreeing with guys like Seflyn and SilverLobo on numerous threads all across the board. And I get very frustrated at the comments made by Novices who have not invested enough time/skill points into thisprofession to make an accurate suggestion as to what changes are needed.

I know Aldeon tries hard, but I do not agree with his decision to inform the Devs that 2.5x melee dmg was our number one issue. I think that was a bad Idea to let people vote. Of course the Novice is going to say an issue relating mostly to PvE, becuase he is currently working for more XP. The few Masters no longer need XP and are primarily concerned with PvP where melee does not come into play as often. (Yes, Commandos do melee, but that WILL be fixed)

No offense Aldeon, I like you, man, but I think you made an error in judgement thinking that letting the rifleman population choose for itself the top issues. There's that huge flaw in the equation which is Novices outnumber MastersI'd guess 10 to 1 easily.

Comments?

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First all Melee damage is going to be fixed in the patch for the professions. Have you not read the dev tracker. Also Aldeon is doing a good job. You are worried about 2.5x melee damage you should join a group of people to go hunting with. You have other options as we did to get to master yes 2.5x was a ***** but it's going to be changed.

"No offense Aldeon, I like you, man, but I think you made an error in judgement thinking that letting the rifleman population choose for itself the top issues. There's that huge flaw in the equation which is Novices outnumber MastersI'd guess 10 to 1 easily."

LOL. Not a big believer in democracy are we? I am consistantly amazed by the disregard of the Masters for the lower ranks of their professions. This is happeneing on every forum and it is pathetic. Masters only seem to recall the hardships they had to deal with and none of the advantages that they had over current novices. In this case the advantaged of prenerf T21s and Supression fire both of which helped current masters to grind through PvE are completely forgotten. Aldeon was completely correct in listening to the majority of the comunity. And you should take your elitist attitude and shove it where you keep your pre-nerf T21.

Actually we should serve the long term community not the short term.

The other division in the profession is the snipers and the M60 (gunner) factions. Strangely enough, this also is a split between masters (and those getting close) and novices (who don't have or don't plan to get the AOE skills)

As is, rifleman is one of the few SWG professions that has a correct progression set. It is hard to get to, the best abilities are high in the tiers, and getting that final master box makes a BIG difference. That is how ALL the combat professions should work, and if you look at most of the discussion from the devs, what they are moving toward.

The other split is between the players who consider themselves Riflemen with other skills, and those who have some rifle to add to another profession.Almost all masters are in that first group, and in general have a better view of the ENTIRE profession, not just the sniper tree and conceal shot. We need to consider the profession from the view of the riflemen for the long term good of those who want this profession to be our defining one.

I agree that the novices and masters have some very different ideas of what is wrong.

I'm not quite a master, but I know what to expect when i attain it (this weekend), and I know that some people are asking for /godmode and are just increasing our chances of being nerfed yet again.

people also don't play the class right, or level as efficiently as they can, and this may be their problem as well. (ie: don't go master sniper before getting flushing2, you're wasting a whole bunch of time, but ppl want that "sniper" title).

Anyways, IMO there should be no dabbling in rifleman. it's all or nothing. and everyone's opinions on what should be "fixed" should be from a MASTER rifleman point of view. fine, you're a 1-1-1-1 rifleman and you frickin suck - but you grind a little bit more and it gets vastly better fairly quickly. Master Sharpshooters fire heavy weapons near or at the speed cap. how can you complain about that!?

issues: (whether they are about to be fixed or not, these are what i think they are)

1. heavy weapons dmg being melee - (to be fixed)

1.2 fix our specials/concealment (just like every other class, we do not work as advertised).

2. accuracy of pistols while using specials at long range (anything over 30 m) -that's unbalancing for ALL professions, not just us.

3. 2.5x melee dmg with the range modifiers as they currently stand - hmm. very debatable - it does justify our superb dmg capabilities at range. but is also very very frustrating when our accuracy drops off so much at anything less that 30-35m /moving targets. i dunno, i would like to see it drop to maybe 1.5 or 2x - and givin a 'rifle butt' defensive special- weak dmg but posture downstatus? something to that effect may be worth playing with/trying out.

4. ham costs? hmm... that's a tough one as well. might be slightly high, but overall i dunno. there has to be cost with our great dmg.

5. make armor piercing work "right" PvE AND PvP.

6. spraystick and tusken rifle dmg types.

7. Warping mobs (annoyance to everyone) - this combined with the 2.5x melee dmg is probably what annoys any rifleman the most. get rid of 2.5x melee dmg PvE or fix the warping issue, or give us greater defensive abilities/accuracy modifiers at close range -at least with certain rifles (spraystick + E11 perhaps).

8. don't even think about touching the speed at master sharpshooter.

9. don't even think about touching the speed at master sharpshooter.

10. (see 8+9)

my 6 cents - i think all these issues affect rifleman as a class, not just master or novice. and none of these call for a nerf of any other profession.

Jeisyn Blackwell ~ Tempest Server ~ Master Scout ~Rifleman 4-1-4-3 ~ Amateur CH to prevent warp

"Actually we should serve the long term community not the short term. "

Actually we should treat the top issues of the month as exactly that -- the top issues of the MONTH and not make it into more than that.

Several points:

1) Given enough time, everyone who wants to be a master rifleman will be a master rifleman. It's impossible to lose XP unless you consciously decide to do so.

2) I'm speaking mostly for myself here, but the goals of master riflemen (at least not this master rifleman) is not to screw over the novices or the non-masters. The point is that a change that helps novices might end up overpowering the class at master. YOU CANNOT SUGGEST A GLOBAL RIFLEMAN CHANGE WITHOUT CONSIDERING ITS IMPACT AT MASTER. I'm telling you right now that many of the suggestions promoted by novice riflemen will make the class too powerful at master, and will eventually call down the nerf bat on our heads.

I have no objection to making it easier to level as a lower level rifleman, assuming the way it is now is not intended. However, I do object to people who want to generally improve the class to the point where novice is as easy or easier than any other elite combat class, and we're overpowered at master. An analogy is someone using a CDEF rifle, noticing that it does less damage than a friend's FWG5, demanding that all rifles be tripled in damage.

Grahd,

I don't post much on these boards, I don't really have much to say because I am a novice rifleman. I didn't vote because I am a novice rifleman and haven't gotten into the class that much to make a very informed vote.

Now, on to your issue. I think the seperation of the two comes because it is very hard to level Rifleman. Alot of other classes are very easy to level and as such there is no real divide between the master's and the novices. The novices know they can only have to deal with a certain situation for a limited amount of time. Not so with Rifleman. Now on to how I know this.

I am a casual player. By casual I mean I play on average an hour and a half a night. A bit more on weekends, a bit less on the weekday. I have been playing this game since launch day and I have always wanted to be a Rifleman/Commando. Even back when Commando's really couldn't do much. Right now my class combo looks like this:

Rifleman 1 0 0 0 Marksmen 4 4 3 4 Scout 4 0 4 0 Medic 0 0 0 0 Brawler 4 0 0 0

Now, I have leveled a Unarmed, Pistol, Rifle, Exploration, and Hunting to 4. I just started Carbine last night and I am already to 3. By far, Rifle was the hardest to get. Pistol took me 2 nights, Unarmed took me 3. Exploration and Hunting I didn't even try to get and I got that in 1 week. Rifle 4 alone took me 3 weeks. Novice rifleman and then sniping 1 took me almost 6 weeks to get.

I understand that things get vastly vastly different at Master level. But why should it be that way? Why do novice rifleman have it so hard compared to the other ranged classes?

One of the things I have noticed is that no one seems to want to help novice rifleman these days. In the begining (and I have been here since these boards went up) there were a number of posts of how to hunt, where to hunt, that sort of thing. I rarely see those posts anymore. I can find a number of posts on other forums on how to become a master. I don't see one of those here.

Anyways, all I am doing is ranting about the divide between he novices and the masters. I don't havea way to fix it. Something needs to be done though.

Sorry for the long post.

Chris

Rifleman - Gorath Server.

actually, i guess number 2 is technically a "nerf"? and thinking about it some more,i'm not sure we should want Pistols to change to 30m and under.

if pistol accuracy gets dropped to 30m or less, then they will try even harder to get into close range - at which point we're severely handicapped. maybe let them keep their 64m range on specials suits us better.

heh

"I have no objection to making it easier to level as a lower level rifleman, assuming the way it is now is not intended. However, I do object to people who want to generally improve the class to the point where novice is as easy or easier than any other elite combat class"

Since the nerfs to Supression Fire & accuracy on the move, rifleman is a very tough profession to advance. Since just about every PvE mob is melee, evry BAF mob autodetects you on the first shot and most of the high end mobs are BAF 2.5 damage multiplier makes advancement as a pure rifleman is very hard. Nor is it really justified. Riflemen already pay for every advantage: Mind Damage - Mind Ham Costs; High Damage - High Ham costs; Long Range - No real range advantage over any other weapon. So why the 2.5 multiplier? What advantagedoes that offset?

This is the issue to me regarding the 2.5X modifier...

Ever since suppression got nerfed, which I'm inclined to agree with by the way, we simply cannot keep the MOB off us.Add warping creaturesandBAF's and you can see that levelingrifle has become unbalanced to leveling other combat classes.

Thearguments I hear are as follows:

"pick up pistol or sword when MOB closes on you"...Then we lose rifle XP

"It's fair because you can kite melee classes"...then why do carbine and pistol not have this?

Can you see that both of these arguments create a situation where riflemen will level much slower than other classes?

Get rid of the 2.5X penalty...The decrease in accuracy at point blank is enough.

I wouldn't agree that the high damage done by riflemen is offset purely by the HAM cost. I can do 3k damage per second in PvE. In an area. That's a lot of damage. In return, I accept that a single player or mob in the right place can take me down if I'm careless. I can take down a group if I'm allowed to operate without interruption.