Rifleman Archive

This guy, I swear....

He obviously only reads what he wants to read and has not a single logical bone in his body.

Note to Jaegen:

*** Most of the Riflemen in this forum dont WANT an increased range unless the devs NERF our Speed to heck and back again. This is only to have SOME competition to you 6 to 1 shots and was counter offered to ONLY have that extra range boost when 1.) Under Cover, 2.) For us to be COMPLETELY IMMOBILE!!

The suggestion that most of us made was to make the *accuracy* of pistol to be more relative to what they are designed to be... Fast Speed, Short Range to Medium Range, Low Damage weapons.

Fact is you ARE more accurate than you should be at the upper band of the Medium Range and Long Range.

Here is his post:

Posted by Jaegen88 on the Pistoleer Forum in response to a cease fire request and a mutual agreement to help ALL the professions with their issues:
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I would. But #1 on their goof priority list is getting pistoleers nerfed because they dont understand they have better accuracy at range. They dont understand how to use ideal range, they dont understand they are a long range support fire profession that doesnt run around and shoot from the hip, but when they DO set up ideal range, they have better accuracy than pistols..period.

They also want reduced HAM costs, and pre-nerf T21s, and to take less melee damage, and to have better defense when under Cover. Hm, more damage, more defense, less HAM cost, nerf pistoleers, wow, yeah, I should really get behind that. How about Learn how to play your profession, and stop making us teach you. Once that's accomplished, sure. I've said time and time again, I'd be more than happy to help run test and make suggestions, bump posts, whatever..but no one was interested in that. They want..as you see, to nerf their opponents and get God mode activated.

I always mention carbineers and now am mentioning polearms in posts, they need help. Rifleman? Well, when their correspondent learns how to utilize ideal range and stops asking for nerfs to the competition...maybe.

Jagen88
Jaegen Kel'daron - Master Gunfighter

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=16958&highlight=#M16958

Jaegen if your idea of nerfing is us asking the devs to make the weapons SCALE like they were intended to and to be more realistic then YEAH I guess we are asking for a nerf.

Personally I think they ORIGINALLY planned idea behind the weapons was very nice. It gave a very nice degree of variance to the weapons and how they were used. It led to alot of tactical decisions that the group / guild had to make for the encounter.

You had your pistols which were very good close to low-medium range firepower which would be the immediate front behind the tanks (Pet or Melee). Your carbineers would be the Medium front and your Riflemen would be the last front and furtherest from the mob.

This style results in a "Realistic" looking battlefield encounter.

Pistols are not accurate at long ranges, dont believe me? Go get your self a 9mm Glock or even a .44 Magnum and march yourself out to 64m and try and hit the bullseye

Want a scope? Try and use a scope....on a pistol.....with it close to your face and fire! OH you now have a black eye?? Geee.... maybe because your shouldnt be using a scope on a pistol....why? Because it is not meant for the range you are firing from, now go back to 15-20m and I bet you hit dead on every single time as you should.

Carbines in my opinion are one of the MOST underpowered weapons in comparision to reality. In reality an M-16 or an AK-47 can level an small group of Infantry in a skilled marksmans hands. In SWG they are just another weapon in the scheme that is underutilized.

Rifles.... you telling me that you would use a Rifle that has a max range of 64m in real life? Please.....you'd be using a BB-Gun.

I am sorry I have flamed you but you are not being reasonable and are not paying attention to reality. You simply are looking out for the best of you Profession. Fine! You however are NOT looking at the big picture enough to ADMIT that......... Maybe you have a little to much accuracy at ranges that you should.

I will not flame you anymore, all that I ask is that you take a step back and look realistically at what is being done in the game we play and ask yourself if that is a true to form representation of what you would see in reality in ANY way shape or form.

Thanks,

Umm Lodinn..

You can "hit the bullseye" with a stock handgun at 64m. You can tag a man-sized target all day at 100m with one. If you're in the Cincinnati area - PM me, we'll go to the range. I'll show ya.

Of course, that has JACK and **edit** to do with this game.

I know, I was trying to stay within the confines of the game we play. A good sniper rifle can hit accurately with a good scope from over 500m but you dont see me asking for that range here in SWG. It was simply a statement.

Jaegen pointed out to the developers that master riflemen, carbineers, and pistoleers could all fire at the 1 shot per second rate.He did not nerf you. A designer suggested a change.

The change is not on the test center. If it is someday, it will have to be approved before it ever went live. Most likely, there will be a lot of changes happening at once and who knows what it will be like.

But you're saying Jaegen nerfed you.

Are you getting slightly carried away? Just a little maybe?

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vGeist wrote:

Are you getting slightly carried away? Just a little maybe?

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Hyperbole? Histrionics? On an internet message board? Nooooo...

Lets not post on this anymore, let it die. This was simply me venting my frustration at the closed mindedness of a spokesman of a profession.

I appologize and lets all try and work together and make this game fun and make it work for everyone.

guys,jaegen is a moron. just ignore him.

He knows that their accuracy is too good, so he doesnt want anybody to talk about it with Devs. I mean come on, if everything is ok, wth you come and cry in rifleman forum or anywhere else? Just let devs to test it and prove that riflemen are 'wrong'. heh.

Again just ignore that guy.

The truth is that 64 meters is the longest range this game engine is going to support (thanks, Devs). So you can't go by what you can do in real life. The fair thing to do would be to set up a ratio.

First let me define what I am going to mean by "maximum effective range". That would be the range at which one could realisticly expect to hit their targets regularly.

Let's say that the maximum effective range of a good rifle is 1000 meters in the hands of a skilled marksman.

Now let's say that the maximum effective range of a good pistol is 200 meters in the hands of a skilled marksman.

1000 is to 64 as 200 is to 12.8. that would make the maximum effective range of pistols 12.8 meters.

Note that I am not suggesting that all pistols should cap at 12.8 meters. I'm just trying to draw an analogy. All of the "negatives" that Riflemen get in the real world are IN THE GAME as if we were the Kings of Range, but none of the positives (as in, ya know, RANGE) are in the game. Riflemen have about a 10 meter range where we can hit anything at all. It's around 60-50 meters. Anything below or above that and we're almost always in the negative. We get TEN METERS OF USEFULNESS. And anything with, ya know, legs. . . can walk towards us and ruin that range.

Since our class needs to lie prone (and soon, take cover) in order to use that range, we have to stand up and start running to keep the target in our "ideal range". The problem is that once we start running, we can't stop unless the target stops. We are the first fighting class in ANY game I have ever played that can be "reverse kited".

Normally, you start running away from an enemy and shoot it down while it chases you. In SWG, if you run TOWARDS a Rifleman, you can shoot him down while you chase HIM.

We get Reverse Kited all day long in the game. It's pathetic.

Since our class needs to lie prone (and soon, take cover) in order to use that range, we have to stand up and start running to keep the target in our "ideal range". The problem is that once we start running, we can't stop unless the target stops. We are the first fighting class in ANY game I have ever played that can be "reverse kited".

Normally, you start running away from an enemy and shoot it down while it chases you. In SWG, if you run TOWARDS a Rifleman, you can shoot him down while you chase HIM.

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Since the Pistoleers believe they have to teach us how to play our profession I would like to hear how to prevent this from happening as it is right now? Its happening for me all day..

Please enlighten me, I can't wait to learn how.

I, too, am eager to hear a solution more detailed than, "you have to know how to play your class instead of having us teach you LOL!"

Seriously. Exactly what should a Rifleman do once a target closes to within 40 meters? Remember, the Rifleman is lying prone, and probably has another few seconds before he can even fire again. How should a Rifleman, Ye Bringers of Knowledge, deal with a target that runs towards us after one shot, thus dropping us into negative to-hit values before we can fire a second time?

Sarcasm aside, I'd like to know.

i think riflemen got a little correspondent envy working. its obvious Jaegen is an excellent advocate for pistol issues and your rifleman correspondent has his head up his ass. i dont blame you guys, i would be a bit jealous too i guess.

Stargoo, next time you have something like that to say, do us all a favor. Get out a paper bag and scream into it until you feel better. Riflemen and Pistoleers already have enough tension without commends like those.