Rifleman Archive

Lets firstly look at why they are introduceing the speed caps on weapons.

The most obvious reason is because players are able to stack bonuses to the extreme that slow fireing T21 can fire as fast as scout blasters. So they are looking at introduceing a HARD SPEED CAP so that players cannot bypass this part of the game.

Now this brings me to Alderon post on HARD RANGE CAPS.

The accuracy bonuses classes receave as they progress (very simlar to speed bonuses rifleman receave) mean that weapons such as a pistol with ideal range of 8m to 16 m can hit 90% the time at 50m and 60m +.

Meaning that natural bonus of rifle that being fact it can hit at long range isnt really there exactly the same as natural bonus of pistols speed not really being viable currently in game due to speed we can shot our rifles.

So if devs going fix the speed issue with a HARD CAP to stop people bypassing it with +22 rifle speed taps or such.

Then they MUST also introduce a HARD RANGE CAP so that pistol users cannot bypass this feature by stacking bonuses or items to avoid the ideal range penatlies. Currently a pistol user can hit 80% to 90% of the time at 48m outside their ideal range it shouldnt even be possible for them to shot that far.

So basicly i beleave Alderon should be pushing for a HARD RANGE CAP to balance out THE HARD SPEED CAP.

Now to pistolers complaining that rifleman are tyring nerf them EXCUSE me but who was ones complaining that rifles could bypass the natural speed ratio with bonues and thus fire faster then expected. If your going fix one problem FiX them both with HARD CAPS.

Totally agree.

While the posts on speed were not just a rifleman nerf, they do affect riflemen a great deal. Pistoleersseemed to befine with the nerfing of rifles, yet onceaccuarcy nerfs start getting thrown around it's "we shouldn't be asking for nerfs on each other!".

I agree 100%, fact is we really don't gain anything.With hisrange cap propisition we can't do specials within point blank through short range, this is a disadvantage to us also. The only thing we gain is the Ability to run from their optimum range wich they alreay have that option for us, if anything thats balance. Infact this might help carbineer more since most likely people will be in their optimum range from all the run and gunning.

gotta bump this

It seems to me that if your not holding a pistol or flame thrower in pvp your usually at the cloning facility.

While I do think this is needed, what do you do when a pistoleer runs up to 20m away?

You shoot when he's 60m out, he takes 700 damage, in the time it takes you to shoot a second shot, he closes that 40m, shoots you 6 times, and collects his FP from your corpse.

We need hard range caps, but this doesn't balance the speed issues IMO.

This doesn't make much sense to me. You want to make it so I can't fire a pistol at a target more than 30m away? What is to stop you from running backwards with a CDEF and kiting me? Nothing, that's your purpose.

If you want to sit there prone and fire at me, this change won't help you because I can close the distance before you get off your second shot. So the whole point of this change is to enable you to run backwards and kite me.

Well that's great. We already have enough problems with melee getting kited, which is why they're getting a range boost. Now you want to do the same to _every_ other combat profession in the game, from Pistoleers to Bounty Hunters to Smugglers? Yeah, that sounds balanced. The Devs gave us all the same range for a reason -- they didn't want us to kite each other.

There are a lot of things that _could_ help riflemen and not nerf every other class, like getting rid of the 2.5 melee penalty, reducing HAM costs, un-nerfing the T21, etc. Nerfing everyone else so you can kite the other classes is not the right solution.

The accuracy bonuses classes receave as they progress (very simlar to speed bonuses rifleman receave) mean that weapons such as a pistol with ideal range of 8m to 16 m can hit 90% the time at 50m and 60m +.

That's not true. The pistoleer pistols are -70 to -90 at max range.

There's another reason this is wrong though. The speed cap is about damage per second. If a T21, or any rifle, does substantially more damage than a pistol, then it should shoot at a slowerrate to balance the difference, making things more equal. If you want a range cap then you're unbalancing things in favor of rifles.

The great difficulty with all of thes proposed changes is that many of them violate The devs own predisposition to return to their original concept of what the classes are and when they should be used. As part of the 'starwarsiness' doctrine Bounty Hunters and Pistoleers, must always win, as this game does not signify reality at all, where a shot from a rifle would quickly incap you(one shot). Look at the rifles and the spped, associated damage of the Clone troopers rifles in Aotc. Creature handlers should by definition be masters of the wild, and therefore extensions of the Ranger. The devs do not want combat to be a one shot solution. Rifleman are the ONLY class that will be quickly dismissed with in the changes to come, as the REST of the classes will have the capacity to defend themselves wheras Rifleman will not. the 2.5x penalty is the price Rifleman pay for hitting a healable mind pool, having greater penalties for moving targets at extended range than pistols, and attaining a DPS that ALMOST rivals that of the Pistoleer, whose weapons of which have power supplies 1/8th the size of a Rifles. Rifles are Gone, change now. The devs must be thinking they should have never created Rifleman in the first place. After all we cant have a t21 doing 3000 dmg on things. I am also a Heavy swordsman and did 4628 dmg on a humbaba, and could spam that special all night.

/agree

Speed caps are ONLY reasonable if they are insituted with range caps.

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vGeist wrote:

The accuracy bonuses classes receave as they progress (very simlar to speed bonuses rifleman receave) mean that weapons such as a pistol with ideal range of 8m to 16 m can hit 90% the time at 50m and 60m +.

That's not true. The pistoleer pistols are -70 to -90 at max range.

There's another reason this is wrong though. The speed cap is about damage per second. If a T21, or any rifle, does substantially more damage than a pistol, then it should shoot at a slowerrate to balance the difference, making things more equal. If you want a range cap then you're unbalancing things in favor of rifles.

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They do substanially more damage true, for less than 30 seconds,at which point they have to sit down and regenerate their empty mind bar.

WE'RE GONNASUCK!

MAKEPISTOLEERSSUCKTOO!

Brilliant.

-c.

Please drop this topic. It will never happen, and if it did, riflemen wouldn't be able to fire at anythingCLOSER than 30m. All you are doing it fanning the flames between our professions.

While the posts on speed were not just a rifleman nerf, they do affect riflemen a great deal. Pistoleersseemed to befine with the nerfing of rifles, yet onceaccuarcy nerfs start getting thrown around it's "we shouldn't be asking for nerfs on each other!".

This pistoleer isn't fine with the weapon speed cap proposal. It sucks. This pistoleer want to see the infinite speed problem fixed (read speed skill 100+). Fixing that by gimping the weapon sucks. Yes, the 3.0 s rifle cap gimped you and shouldn't be introduced.

This pistoleer is fine with nerfing pistol accuracy at long range if it's unbalanced.

However, a range cap doesn't address the first issue nor the second issue. This pistoleer would like all combat correspondents try to focus the dev attention on addressing the 2 issues above and not distract them by them giving more nerfing idea like range cap, special cap, etc. Just address the infinite speed problem without gimping somebody and just address too-accurate pistol at max range problem.

Just don't throw around the "I'm gimped, so let's gimped everybody else so we're all equally gimped".