Rifleman Archive

Recently I've been dueling a friend of mine who's Master Rifleman with some pistoleer and other stuff. Whenever he hits me with startleshot I cannot heal myself no matter what I do. I've tried targeting myself, untargeting him... but I still cannot heal (I'm master CM and always attempt to use BactaToss first, although BactaShot still won't work, and bactaSpray will also heal him...DUH!).

So according to the description, it's supposed to be some sort of disarming shot, plus it will attempt to raise the opponent's posture. Since it is also stopping me from healing, is this supposed to work this way? Could it be that we're on the same faction and the system gets screwed? (since healing and dueling are not good friends it seems)

And most important... has anyone else experienced this?

From what I get, it's supposed to lower the RoF from the enemy, but I can't see any noticable difference when I use it. I use it mainly as it's my second highest damage output, and on a separate timer to headshot.

It stops your enemy from doing an action for the duration of Startle Shot; however it is broken if you Hit the person again. In some cases it also stops states from being countered... Make up your own combinations, but with a root and Startleshot on an individual it gives you a little time to do what you need to do...heal, eat food, change weapons, taunt, mock, run away whatever....

I know it ticks off a lvl 80 urnsor.

stops them doing a move/special...CoB, healing, normal attacks/specials..all for the length of one move.

I use it when people are about to kd me or drop a heal on themself, totally screws up what they were planning to do and upsets them =)

Right now, sounds like the person is taking advantage of a set of attacks, which in my opinion is somewhat a bug. Using the following in a manner that it isn't supposed to be used.

I know a guy thinking it is uber, has Rifle/Pistoleer/CM. All he does is startle shot, disarming shot, knockdown on a person and you pretty much can't hit him back. He hits you with startle shot, then another startle shot being disarming shot, knocks you down, and repeats. Knock down is only used the first time I believe. He then just goes back and forth between the other two, breaking the pervious one, but doing damage and making it to where you are delayed the whole time. I think startle shot should have some type of timer on it, as knockdown does, root and others.

Stratle shot is a delay. Once you are hit with it u cannot perform another action until its broken. My opponents stay startled for 1-3 seconds during which time any attack that hits them breaks the effect. So its not a very long lasting state effect. Sounds like your friend is just using a great combination of specials to whoop you. As it is though headshot, startleshot and kneecap shot are basically the only shots i use as Master Rifleman/Master Weaponsmith, I am Lvl54 and can stomp on people in PVP using only those at 80m range with my cyborg arms on. Triple incap FTW!!! They should just give us ranged DB back.

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PyscoJuggalo wrote:

So you would rather it be, that you take none of their damage down and they just heal with impunity all the time?

The KD + Startle/Disarm Tactic counters the Ranged/Doc template, without Startle + Disarm they have no counter.

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I haven't seen the heal time of a doc in combat. I know I am at around 45 secs. I know Jedi can do every 3 secs. Did a test, jedi vs me no heal, Jedi dies in about 10 secs. Even if they had a heal in there once, it would only bring it out to 13 to 15 secs.

Now, I personally took out most health on 7 Rebel players with just a Jedi healing me. All I had to do was just take them all out, he just kept me healed and I was able to death blow 4 of them. Other 3 were dbed by other people. They tried knocking me down, rooting me, but it didn't matter, as I was being healed every 3 to 5 secs by the Jedi.

So, I haven't seen the ranged/Doc template and don't know anyone with it. What is their heal time?

Have you tried different things to counter this or are you just standing toe to toe and letting him shoot these specials at you?

I use this combo mainly on Jedi when I get low on action and need to rest up. I have not used it in normal pvp since I almost never find a normal pvp situation where it is 1v1. This combo is useless if you are fighting with other people or against more than one person. 1v1 against a jedi this only makes it so they cannot attack me since they can heal while delayed. The jedi also block 25%, or most do, so I've never seen it as a devistating effect.

I agree with psyco, I don't see this as devistating to pvp. It might give an advantage in a 1v1 duel, but be smart and try to find ways of getting out of this. I havea fewways of avoiding this combo.

The funniest way is to attack a low level creature near you. The creature will not do much dmg, but will cancel out the delay effect allowing you to shoot. If you have a friend nearby, duel them and have them shoot you with a cdef (I have a cdef ready for when I'm hunting with my jedi friends, he hasn't been hunted in a while so I'm not sure if this still works).

Run behind some cover like a building and come out spamming a knockdown or a delay of your own. I almost always get the first shot off after coming out from behind a rock or building and can take the initiative.

If you know you are fighting one of these people make sure you keep them stunned. Their action will go down and not come back up so they will not be able to spam you with the combo.

Have a knockdown recovery macro running or be really quick about getting up. You can get up before they can shoot the startleshot. You will still be delayed but can move out of sight till the delay wears off and work some other strategies.

These are just a few things I came up with that work for me. I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with some yourself. And like Psyco said, this does not work on all templates. This is supposed to be a masive rock sicsors paper thing and maybe you are rock to his paper. That being said, you can use the environment and your brain to smash that rock right through his paper.

There are plenty of powerful templates out there. I see no end of complaints about this combo, rooting, jedi healing, doc healing, COB, cloak, force aura, debuffs. Where do you start the nerf and where does it end? Complaints like this about eyeshot, creature handler, stoppingshot, defensive templatesand commandoes are what started the nerfing of the pre CU SWG. Many of these things seemed game breaking at the time but almost all would have ended up being no big deal if people had thought of equiptment, strategies and buffs to counter them. I mean how devistating was creature handler back in the beginning? 3 rancorsbeing sent after you was very scary. It got nerfed and then 3 months later everyone was able to solo an entire lair of rancors without breaking a sweat. The nerf had nothing to do with people being able to solo a ton of rancors at the same time, it was the evolution of the armor and buffs, but ch got nerfed before these were available. I'm not a big fan of the nerf no matter who it hits, it takes away so much of the challenge in this game.

Message Edited by Geddeo on 06-10-2005 01:57 PM

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mzf5c5 wrote:

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PyscoJuggalo wrote:

So you would rather it be, that you take none of their damage down and they just heal with impunity all the time?

The KD + Startle/Disarm Tactic counters the Ranged/Doc template, without Startle + Disarm they have no counter.

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I haven't seen the heal time of a doc in combat. I know I am at around 45 secs. I know Jedi can do every 3 secs. Did a test, jedi vs me no heal, Jedi dies in about 10 secs. Even if they had a heal in there once, it would only bring it out to 13 to 15 secs.

Now, I personally took out most health on 7 Rebel players with just a Jedi healing me. All I had to do was just take them all out, he just kept me healed and I was able to death blow 4 of them. Other 3 were dbed by other people. They tried knocking me down, rooting me, but it didn't matter, as I was being healed every 3 to 5 secs by the Jedi.

So, I haven't seen the ranged/Doc template and don't know anyone with it. What is their heal time?

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OK either way (Still working on mastering a Doc char), Startle+Disarm can be countered, which is the main point. Why nerf something that can be countered? Have you every tried to keep someone with Advanced COB delayed? It is pretty dammed hard

Thanks all for the replies. The thing is, after talking to him he told me all he was doing was spam startleshot endlessly. I agree that in a normal PVP situation this simply isn't noticeable at all, for I have been fighting a lot in the last days (weeks even?) and I hadn't noticed this. But on 1 vs 1, unless you have the same sort ot special, in this case it became impossible for me to keep myself healed. It totally negated this. I'm glad to know, however, that this breaks on damage, even though a continuous set of startleshot -> headshot (loop) will most certainly kill me always. Unless I have the first strike and he misses one of those shots in the sequence.

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mzf5c5 wrote:

Right now, sounds like the person is taking advantage of a set of attacks, which in my opinion is somewhat a bug. Using the following in a manner that it isn't supposed to be used.

I know a guy thinking it is uber, has Rifle/Pistoleer/CM. All he does is startle shot, disarming shot, knockdown on a person and you pretty much can't hit him back. He hits you with startle shot, then another startle shot being disarming shot, knocks you down, and repeats. Knock down is only used the first time I believe. He then just goes back and forth between the other two, breaking the pervious one, but doing damage and making it to where you are delayed the whole time. I think startle shot should have some type of timer on it, as knockdown does, root and others.

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I don't think so.......

If you get rid of Startle/Disarm Combo Doctor/CM becomes too powerful. BTW there already is a counter to Startle and Disarm. It is picking up advanced COB from TKA and stacking defences, you will miss enough that you can not lock people into KD.

But this combo will be nerfed anyway and then we will be back to MD wars.........

Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 06-10-2005 03:19 PM

Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 06-10-2005 03:21 PM