Rifleman Archive
Thread: Bring Back the 2.5x damage mod :(
Xyber_Hex wrote:
Put someone with an assault rifle in a match with someone with a nice glock.
Then but the person with the assault rifle in with the best martial artist you can find.
Include each weapon form also.
Go ahead and put them in with someone with a self contained flame thrower.
The rifle will come out alive every single time unless they trip and fall.
Let people whine all they want, I am personally tired of even acknowledging it anymore.
Your correct IRL the rifleman should own all and the melee profs should suck cause ever since the crossbow was invented melee has been uselss.
But in this game if we have the best of everything you can bet we will have nothing soon enough
Ciirybeccaskyr wrote:
As a long time riflman (augest) I have to say that ATM there is NO reason except looks to go with any ranged prof except rifles. We get as good of defences, do tripple the damage, when added with ranged support have passive KD, havemost status effects and are the kings of pvp as wellbecaues of targeting the mind and having the only AP1 stun weapon.
This isnt to say that any of those things are bad and i do enjoy all of them but it is clearly not balanced. It is inevitable that we will get nerfed and if we look at all the other nerfs since augest we can see that the devs never just nerf back to a blance they always overdo (look at ch)
With a 2.5x damage mod there is at least some drawback to our prof tht we can point to and say sure we do the most damage per second but look at this we have a huge weekness that is balanceing that out.
The reason i say this is because i really enjoy rifles and dont want to see it go the way of the other prof i still enjoy (CH) where the devs listen to all the nerf cries and insted of balancing it out with additions to other classes or minor adjustments (increase melee classes tanking abilities for CH balance or increase ham on high end mobs, or slightly reduce the effectiness of critters as tnaks) they go to the easy extream and just nerf the class to to a point where it is no longer usefull.
When they took away the 2.5x melee modifier, they inadvertently made us harder to hit instead of easier to hit. The last publish made us easier to hit. So that is balanced back out to a large degree. They do not need 2.5x the damage per hit if they are hitting us 2.5x as often.
Regarding defenses, we have good ranged defenses, but even despite the cumulative +40 melee defense at x x x 4 (and, therefore, Master), melee will almost never miss us now because of this new to-hit bonus. Heck, I have +67 melee defense with my build, but it is virtually useless to me unless I switch to my melee weapons. If I hold my rifle, I will get hit and hit often.
We do not get "good defenses." We have some of the poorest defenses against status effects in the game. Even with extra defenses with Master Swordsman, I get KD'ed almost every time it is tried, and I end up with every status modifier in the game when I get in battles. We have probably the best ranged defenses, but the poorest melee defenses and just about the poorest status effects defenses. Sounds pretty logical and balanaced to me.
And the idea that having Ranged support giving us a passive KD is untrue. Ranged support is not a rifleman skill. That is like saying that we are overpowered because I have Lunge2 from Master Brawler, and the truth is, I can KD people a lot more effectively with Lunge2 than you ever will with Dizzy and Suppression fire. No, "we" do not havea passive KD with Ranged Support. Riflemen mixed with other professions have that.
Likewise, we do not "have the most status effects." Strafeshot2 can remove cover and delay. So what? No one goes into cover in PvP, and the delay only works if you remove them from cover. Even so, who can go into cover? Only rifle users! So our most powerful special has two status modifiers which is only good against ourselves and only if we are stupid enough to go into cover, which no one does! So there are two useless status effects.
We have Posture up changes on 4 shots. Posture up is good against what in PvP? Almost no one in PvP does anything but run around. That means that they are already at their highest posture, so posture up does nothing.And even so, posture up is next to useless for causing a KD, because unless someone is stupid enough to want to go back down after we have dizzied them AND raised their posture, it cannot work. Dizzy/KDs only work when people change posture voluntarily. So again, an almost totallyuselessstatus effect on 4 shots.
That leaves us Stun and Dizzy. Dizzy is useful for keeping people from burst running and for getting a Dizzy/KD. But since it is next to impossible to KD someone without skills from other professions (and even with suppression fire is sketchy), the only thing it can do for us is to prevent burst running. A minor usage of a skill that gets us killed all the time.
That leaves only Stun. Stun is definitely a useful status effect, but by my count, that is only one,one and a half if you count Dizzy. So where is this "most status effects"of which you speak?On the other hand, Ihave finished battles blind, stunned, dizzied, intimidated, along with several other effects, all at the same time. And it takes little more than a gentle breeze to knock me down even after stacking Swordsman and Brawler defenses. So how do you figure we gain any power except from our damage and speed?
And AP1 + stun is overrated. Guess what? Against stun vulnerable armor (which the vast majority of the armor in the game is), an AP1 stun weapon gets no AP bonus, so a 200 point hit from an AP0 stun weapon does exactly the same damage as a 200 point hit from an AP1 stun weapon when the target is stun vulnerable. Yes, it gets a bonus over an AP0 stun weapon when the armor has stun resists, but it is one of our lower damage rifles, and we are supposed to deal more damage, precisely because our damage per second drops to 0 when we are Dizzy/KDed which happens more often to us than just about any other profession.
No, the to-hit modifier is enough for now, and wait for the full combat balance before you start crying for a nerf against your own profession. As has been stated at least a thousand times, the problem is that other professions are not working, not that there is a problem with the way we work.
All good points dispite the misquotes.
However the truth remains there is no REAL drawback the the rifleman prof. At least remove all melee defence cause you are right it does us no good and onmly serves as a starting point for defence stackers with the devs stupid enough to not cap ranged/melee defence lower than 125 as it is harder to overcome than the secondary defences (for those that dont know status effects stick dispite a dodge/counter/block).
Also i never said ranged support is a riflman skill i said that a KD is avalible to us for a very minimal sp investment in it and yes it does work as a KD even without the posture up cause almost everyone is running in PVP and very very few are smart enough to stop running when you posture them down so they try to stand and fall. If they are melee they are forced to and if they are ranged they can stay postured down and we will decimate them with our suprior accuracy and damage.
I also never stated that our passive kd is better than a real one or even as good just a option that works and due to our supper high speed we can get in the 3-4 shots to do it in as many seconds where to do it with carbineers 2 shots would take 6-8. or for a BH (with many more sp spent on there tricks) can do it in only about 3.
the other stats are intimidate which i dont count because it is a melee only and blind which is the only one we dont get.
You are flaming like i am here trying to destory your prof but you have obviouly missed the fact that i too am in theis prof and that is exactly what i dont want to happen.
We need some weekness and we really dont have one with only marginaly lower defences (you can notice i said good not "great" or "the best" or "uber") than the other ranged profs in the def vs XX but haveing much more ranged amd Melee to more than balance that out.
There are many here who will fight anything that gives us a weekness while maintaing our core strength of huge damage output because they care less about a fun prof that has its good points and its low point that they have to work around and more about putting off haveing to change to the next FOTM setup. The truth is that our only remaing weekness is that we use large amounts of mind for our specials but with the foods avalible that is no longer the issue it used to be when all we had was muon
Xyber_Hex wrote:
Put someone with an assault rifle in a match with someone with a nice glock.
Then but the person with the assault rifle in with the best martial artist you can find.
Include each weapon form also.
Go ahead and put them in with someone with a self contained flame thrower.
The rifle will come out alive every single time unless they trip and fall.
Let people whine all they want, I am personally tired of even acknowledging it anymore.
Please, quit writing in green. If you want to make your post stand out, say something inteligent and usefull, not draw the same old relations between this game and the real world. It is very much so not the real world, and if that is what you want, I suggest you step out the front door. This is a game, it should be ballanced.
Right now, I think rifleman is just a bit overballanced; not as bad as some scream, it just needs some tweeking. Some things that I believe would help would be the following:
1) Remove all +range modifiers at 0m on rifles.(Conversly, increase the range modifiers at max range and increase max range to 100m [experimentable])
2) Remove all melee defence.
3) Give us a 1.5-2.0x dmg modifier for melee (not commando weapons or any of that crap, just melee). 2.5x is a bit too much.
4) Make cover worth something, at least in PvE. Let us get off five or six shots when under cover and over 50m away from the critter (65m, if they increase range 
). This will help with the lower level riflemen who would get creamed by critters under these new circumstances.
I'll never understand how people get such uber weapons/shots. 
I have to be buffed, stuffed, and stoned off my *** in order to compeat in PvP simply because of HAM useage. I don't feal guilty if others have to do the same in order to survive some headshots or SS2s.
All i use for PVP as a wook is a pernerf ryshcate(can keep one in almost all the time) and 2 bio-brandys for nearly ham free specails
Without buffs or armor i still win far more than i lose justdue to my damage output.
I have a CM alt that i use for hunting dragons to heal my pets while i kill im and dont even pvp at all with him cause it is just to easy to buffmyself slap on tripple stun layer 80+% armor and kill people with area poisons and his uber pistol 4 skills
Wow, great post Sotaudi, well written and well thought out.
There is no way in hell we need the 2.5x damage mod back, that is pure idiocy.
IMO the current reasonswhy people are all gravitating toward rifleman or screaming nerf are these:
1 - Our specials target unhealable mind
2 - Armour is a joke.. any idiot can buy high resist composite now and get it sliced into 80+resist to everything but stun (which of course brings us to #3) So with huge resists and buffs people can just heal themselves with impugnity to a degree.
3 - Our Jawa Ion Rifle. The stupid thing is it's not even a very high damage rifle. The fact all armour except the totally broken R.I.S has stun vulnerability and the best we can hope to get to protect our precious unhealable minds in superduper composite armour is what 40 percent resist? so this rather crappy rifle is the end all of PvP nowadays. Oh and nowour pistol wielding brethrenhave the Geo pistol which makes my precious Jawa look like crap AP1 or not!
I think that fairly well sums up the main issues with why people either go rifleman or whine that we need to be nerfed.
A