Rifleman Archive

Like many other days the first thing I did today was stop by and catch up on the GCW forum posts though I've noticed something kind of interesting. Aside from the normal "fix this faction problem" is a mass of "the game is doomed" and since release of the CU/R/B on TC5 we now have "the CU sucks" style posts. Given that the beta has only been out for less than 24 hours people are running around like rabid dogs foaming at the mouth and biting at everything they can which has to do with the CU. All of this "the sky is falling" talk has prompted me to present a question to our profession to which many old timers can best relate to.

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Early this morning I decided that I'd waste a half hour or so trying out the new CU changes. Of course I did the standard randomize my character, selected a base profession (in TC5 right now profession choice makes no difference as you start out with all basic professions), random name generated and clicked on Next to proceed into the testing arena. Naturally I ignored the tutorial (heard it dozens of times in the past) and used the terminal in front of my toon to port into the game. Being that I've always been fond of Tatooine I chose Bestine as my starting location and anticipated the load.

Once loaded in there were scores of players lingering everywhere. It brought back memories of times past to which one could always find people in static cities. Having read up on the use of the Blue Frogs and recall using them on the publish 13 test, I quickly headed over to the machine that would generate the items I so needed. My first choice was of course to check out all the weapons listed as rifles and ended up generating one of each type though I quickly learned I couldn't equip the ones that I wasn't certified for; however, I could at least place them in a house (4th major item after weapons, credits, and a swoop) or examine them in my inventory. I must admit I'm rather impressed with the new information box that displays the stats of the weapons. Sure it falls into line with many other MMO's but takes some of the guess work out of along with seems to be cleaner looking than the ones on live.

After ogling at all the new weapons I'd just generated I decided it was time to test out my skills as a Novice N00b. A feeling I recall as SW:G being my first MMO, Tatooine being my original starting planet and the whole nostalgic feeling of starting anew in a game I've come to understand. Once my swoop was generated and I'd fixed my tool bar to best suit my needs (removed the surveying and dancing stuff as I wanted to focus on ranged combat) I headed off over the western horizon behind the Bestine starport on a path I'd once used to travel months ago.

Stopping a short distance from my previous location I found a chubba sitting quietly in the distance. Recalling how I'd once used to kill these creatures for xp back in the days I immediately dismounted my swoop and equipped my trusty CDEF rifle. With my weapon in hand my target in sight I clicked on the ranged attack icon (default from master marksman) and was instantly hit with a +out of range+ message. My first reaction was "W T F? Rifles are long range and 50m isn't that far" then I examined the rifle and realized that the range on the CDEF wasn't 0-65 like the others but 0-35m. No difference, we have to start somewhere and besides the CDEF rifle in the hands of a skilled user wouldn't be a match for this lowly creature. I moved in to the ideal range for my rifle and then proceeded to attack my target. Having read all the CU notes and what's been leaked to the community about attacks I knew that my actions would be set on timers. Keeping in mind that I could also queue up one extra attack with my initial attack I double clicked the range attack button to and watched the numbers fly in the combat log and the ham of the chubba slowly deplete.

Four shots into the seemingly harmless chubba, the creature turns to my direction and charges my position. Of course any rifleman knows that our targets will ultimately turn and go melee on us during engagements so I felt like the rushing chubba was of little threat. Much to my dismay this docile creature hits me 3 times for over 300 points of damage to which I fall incap. After my short nap my character stood up and I performed the heal action that gave me back the much needed health I so desired. Going over the combat log and taking note of the damage dealt by my weapon and by the chubba I decided to attempt a tactic that is used numerous times on live servers. Having my swoop near by and the chubba lined up I initiated my attack once again on this creature and once he started to charge my position I mounted my bike and made a quick break for safety. This worked though much to my disappointment the creature healed itself but no need to fret as I just need to find something lower in level to kill.

Just a short jot away I run into a random spawn of nuna's and recall how quickly these guys could be dispatched and figured that this would be the way to go. Once again I dismounted my swoop and took up a position (kneeling for better accuracy) and chose one of the nuna's to become my test subject. Having my victim in sight and ready to attack I clicked on the range attack icon and initiated my attack. This time I was doing more damage to the nuna than the chubba and hoped that this would be a good way to grind. Well after the first three shots the nuna got wise to what I was trying to do and changed my location. Nuna's haven't been deadly since a month or two after release and I'd figured what the hell, let him attack as he couldn't do much to me. Once again I fall on my back incapped by this presumed weak creature. Having enough of being pushed around I decided to /examine my target and found out that he'd be instant death if I kept attacking. With memories of nuna's DB'ing me in the past and noticing the insta-death warning in the examine box I quickly headed back to town where I would hopefully find better things to test my skills out on.

Once back in the safety of Bestine I headed over to one of the several locations to which agros were spawning. I chose the one past the bank and mission terminals and closest to the cloner as if I did die I could always come back out to finish the job. With this in mind and a rill near by I'd found my new target. Rills have a special place to me as I used to grind endlessly on them in the past. As a tribute to the creature I'd caused the most damage to and during my short time as a Creature Hander (extremely short at that) I picked one up as a travel companion. Snapper used to follow me everywhere and look to me as his alpha rill, carrying out my every command. Eventually I had to set him free as I knew I couldn't keep him from his environment and family so I turned him back over to the wilderness. May the force keep watch over him wherever he is now.

Back on track, with the rill in sight and my toon standing on a hill I once again changed posture to kneeling for better accuracy. Ready to attack I click on the range attack icon and get a +Cannot see target+ message. Much to my surprise they've finally made terrain count during combat. No longer can one just target an agro and attack without concern of terrain as attacks on live servers haven gone through the ground. I move my location over to one which would be better suited for an attack from the prone position and open fire on my target. This time instead of clicking twice and waiting a few seconds I kept clicking on the icon and noticed that the delay (warm up / cool down) didn't take near as long as I had once thought. After a steady stream of attacks I'd finally scored my first kill and gained experience. I proceeded on killing agro after agro for the next 5 minutes as I learned how to time the wait periods between attacks. Unfortunately I had to drop connection and take off as I was already running late; however, excited about the new changes I'd just experienced.

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Overall with the new combat system open for testing on TC5, and after reading the forum posts under the GCW I'm at a loss for explanation as to the disgust some posters seem to have over the new system. I've been an animate poster about how a return to the first 6 months of SW:G would be for the better of the game as to me this was the golden era of this product. During this time players didn't need buffs, didn't have godly armor or uber weapons nor stacked defenses. Back in those days players used to group up to kill lairs and missions to which we've become all to accustom to soloing on current live servers.

Another thing that used to happen back in the first 6 months after release and every rifleman from around this time knows all to well and bears the scares from is the old 2.5x melee damage modifier that used to be tacked on to any player who had a rifle equipped. Any NPC, creature or player who performed melee attacks on a player wielding a rifle would do 2.5x more damage to the player. Back in these days agros used to warp 10 meters out after the first couple of attacks only to warp instantly on top of the rifle wielder instantly incapping them as the melee modifier would kick in. Players used to warp back or forward sometimes up to 30m in either direction if they went prone and this too figured into the grinding issues of professions but was felt the most by the rifle wielding community.

In the past Rifleman was arguably the hardest profession to master and recalling what it was like to grind in the old system before buffs and armor, I can't readily explain why people have such a dislike for it. Granted I've only spent a very small portion of time testing out the new system though I feel that I can make an educated judgment over how things might unfold. Outside of the grossly imbalanced creatures that are on TC5 currently and the lack of buffs, armor and uber weapons all players are set back to as if they were doing the game from the very beginning.

Personally I don't find any real problems with the CU and the way combat is being handled there as of right now. Warm up and cool down for specials is much like how it used to be where a player had to time their attacks as to not do more damage to themselves than what the agro was dishing out. I also recall what it was like getting one hit incapped by many creatures around the galaxy thanks to the 2.5x melee damage modifier. Maybe it's because I recall the pain and agony of grinding for days only to see the same cloner, medical center and becoming a regular in cantinas from the old system that I don't see the anguish people are experiencing under the system on TC5.

So to the old timers out there who've messed with the changes on TC5, what's your take on the horde of veteran players who are proclaiming the CU/R/B to be "too hard" or "grossly problematic"?

Message Edited by DarkHelmet-TIO on 04-01-2005 12:55 PM

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Ackehece wrote:

auto-attack default

pick a special

do ctrl + click on the special

the target something and click the special once - you will be pleasantly surprised

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Thank goodness! I'm glad it's just an interface familiarity thing, and not a decision on their part to do away with autoattack functions altogether... in fact, by your description they improved on them, allowing you to autoattack with any special, rather than just base "attack". Me likey, me likey...

I'll chime in and say that I have also enjoyed my experiences on TC5 with the CU so far. We're all going to have to re-learn the game, so I can understand why some people are upset, but I am quite sure that the game will be much better off once its done. The combat system seems good, creatures will be good with a balance pass, weapons are going to be really good because of increased diversity, and the profession trees look like they will be fun and interesting.

One comment about the auto-attack via ctrl-click. I have had mixed experiences with it, it couldn't get it to work on lairs at all and it seemed to stop working sometimes on creatures/MOBs in general also. I am also worried about being able to make a special attack your default looping combat action. Isn't eliminating the ability to spam attacks one of the major points of the CU? I think I would prefer it if a standard attack was the default action, and would loop without any special actions from the user, and clicking a special would enqueue it as the next action, but you can only enqueue 1 thing at a time.

In any case, I think that if folks keep in mind that the CU on TC right now is essentially a public beta, and that creatures/weapons/etc. are all going to be balanced several times, they could see that the CU will end up being a real positive change for the game.

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Ackehece wrote:

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LecheHombre wrote:
I'll chime in and say that I have also enjoyed my experiences on TC5 with the CU so far. We're all going to have to re-learn the game, so I can understand why some people are upset, but I am quite sure that the game will be much better off once its done. The combat system seems good, creatures will be good with a balance pass, weapons are going to be really good because of increased diversity, and the profession trees look like they will be fun and interesting.

One comment about the auto-attack via ctrl-click. I have had mixed experiences with it, it couldn't get it to work on lairs at all and it seemed to stop working sometimes on creatures/MOBs in general also. I am also worried about being able to make a special attack your default looping combat action. Isn't eliminating the ability to spam attacks one of the major points of the CU? I think I would prefer it if a standard attack was the default action, and would loop without any special actions from the user, and clicking a special would enqueue it as the next action, but you can only enqueue 1 thing at a time.

In any case, I think that if folks keep in mind that the CU on TC right now is essentially a public beta, and that creatures/weapons/etc. are all going to be balanced several times, they could see that the CU will end up being a real positive change for the game.

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yeah that was my thought as well.. I thought we were getting rid of spamming

otoh

while your one auto attack is charging up try another one. If they are in different pools it will fire and then the auto attack will go off as well.

I wonder if the autoattack only works for marksmen/brawler level attacks. It would make sense (kinda like the auto shot we have now) and will allow us to use our upper level specials as specials.

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KundoJet wrote:

Could be... I got the impression that the biggest restriction against spamming was the new warm-up/cool-down times. You MIGHT want to have your big-damage attack on repeat, but the interval may be so large it would be counter-productive. Mixing up your shots lets you do more. I just don't want to have to click the mouse 44 gajillion times to kill a simple lair. :-)

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LecheHombre wrote:
I'll chime in and say that I have also enjoyed my experiences on TC5 with the CU so far. We're all going to have to re-learn the game, so I can understand why some people are upset, but I am quite sure that the game will be much better off once its done. The combat system seems good, creatures will be good with a balance pass, weapons are going to be really good because of increased diversity, and the profession trees look like they will be fun and interesting.

One comment about the auto-attack via ctrl-click. I have had mixed experiences with it, it couldn't get it to work on lairs at all and it seemed to stop working sometimes on creatures/MOBs in general also. I am also worried about being able to make a special attack your default looping combat action. Isn't eliminating the ability to spam attacks one of the major points of the CU? I think I would prefer it if a standard attack was the default action, and would loop without any special actions from the user, and clicking a special would enqueue it as the next action, but you can only enqueue 1 thing at a time.

In any case, I think that if folks keep in mind that the CU on TC right now is essentially a public beta, and that creatures/weapons/etc. are all going to be balanced several times, they could see that the CU will end up being a real positive change for the game.

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bind middle mouse button for default attack, makes attacking lairs less cumbersome

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LecheHombre wrote:
I'll chime in and say that I have also enjoyed my experiences on TC5 with the CU so far. We're all going to have to re-learn the game, so I can understand why some people are upset, but I am quite sure that the game will be much better off once its done. The combat system seems good, creatures will be good with a balance pass, weapons are going to be really good because of increased diversity, and the profession trees look like they will be fun and interesting.

One comment about the auto-attack via ctrl-click. I have had mixed experiences with it, it couldn't get it to work on lairs at all and it seemed to stop working sometimes on creatures/MOBs in general also. I am also worried about being able to make a special attack your default looping combat action. Isn't eliminating the ability to spam attacks one of the major points of the CU? I think I would prefer it if a standard attack was the default action, and would loop without any special actions from the user, and clicking a special would enqueue it as the next action, but you can only enqueue 1 thing at a time.

In any case, I think that if folks keep in mind that the CU on TC right now is essentially a public beta, and that creatures/weapons/etc. are all going to be balanced several times, they could see that the CU will end up being a real positive change for the game.

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I have had the same thing happen to me, it seemed like it happened pretty often. I would be in a fight and then just stop attacking and stand there. Is this a bug?

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Ackehece wrote:

thank you - that was beautiful to read

/wipe tear from eye

It really is nice to have someone not complain for a change.

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it's my job to complain, as long as I do it constructively.

/backtobugreports