Rifleman Archive
Thread: Can rifleman tank elder?
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BizzyNinja
Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:55 pm
#1
i used to be all melee stacked...but now i decided to try out rifleman. so i'm just curious if any of you riflemen out there (strictly rifles as primary attack) that can tank an elder?
Jeisyn
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:01 pm
#2
well, if you get lucky and she's doing kinetic dmg then it's all up to your armor.
worst case, she is gonna bleed the crap out of you, hit you for AP2 kinetic to your mind, and put a whole lot of states on you.
your ability to tank will be completely up to your armor, as you have no melee toughness and she won't miss very oftendue to your low melee defense.
i really don't recommend trying to tank one with rifle unless you've stacked state defenses.
what can work well is Kiting...find a nice patch of runway and just keep running around in a nice big circle with about 35m between you. it'll take a while, but it's much better than conceal shot 
your best bet is to find a guildmate or buddy with good 2hand sword skills - he can tank for you and you'll double up on mind dmg, then split the lewtz.
BizzyNinja
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:03 pm
#3
well i want to solo it, i'll have 95 melee defense, capped dizzy def and 95 def to stun. i'll also have the ability to /firstaid and use stim e's. i don't want to do any kiting, just strictly tanking.
by the sound of it, i think i'll do fine. i will also have +4 melee mitigation
by the sound of it, i think i'll do fine. i will also have +4 melee mitigation
Message Edited by BizzyNinja on 12-06-2004 02:03 PM
HarlequinMK19
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:11 pm
#4
BizzyNinja wrote:
well i want to solo it, i'll have 95 melee defense, capped dizzy def and 95 def to stun. i'll also have the ability to /firstaid and use stim e's. i don't want to do any kiting, just strictly tanking.
by the sound of it, i think i'll do fine. i will also have +4 melee mitigation
Message Edited by BizzyNinja on 12-06-2004 02:03 PM
I'm not calling you a liar, but how do you have +4 melee mitigation. I'm not certain, but I'm fairly certain that the +4 will only kick in if you have a melee' weapon equipped. Unless you're a defense stacked Rifleman, I wouldn't recommend tanking unless you had some really sick really armor. I've kited elders before by using Strafe Shot while running, but I don't know if I'd call that tanking. 
Good luck all the same.
Jeisyn
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:12 pm
#5
i thought you meant you used to be stacked and you no longer are...
at any rate, the state defenses and the +3 melee mitigation will certainly help (over +3 doesn't matter, 3 is cap
But even with capped melee defense, they hit often enough to hurt! when i'm fencing and on aircake she still hits a lot..
with some nice 80% kinetic (at least!) armor, you should do okay. if she has a stun baton, find a new elderor kite.
i would get entertainer buffs, pop 2 brandy, eat a synthsteak, keep more synth on your toolbar for when your first one runs out, keep a muon hotkey'd just incase. a Canape might also be helpful for some insane willpower stats to help regen any mind dmg. your armor is gonna take a massive beating, but you should be able to pull it off. don't bother with state applications except intimidate (constant intimidate!). Intimidate, mindshot1+2, and HS3.
With the right food and armor combinations, it should be possible.
still, it's much easier with melee toughness which does not apply while you holda rifle.
Message Edited by Jeisyn on 12-06-2004 04:17 PM
BizzyNinja
Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:44 pm
#7
i used to be a MELEE stacker, meaning i was a defense stacked tkm. now i guess you could call my template a rifleman...defense stacker?
i know how to solo elder for i used to...using swords/medic, so i know how often and hard they hit. i do have kinetic armor over 84% and i sure can get more. as for the synthsteak, i don't use it for pvp or elder, but if i have to against elder i will.
from what i've seen, rifleman deal pretty good damage. i know for sure i'll be able to take out the elder a lot quicker than when i was using swords (i was only 0402 swordsman and took anywhere from 35-45min to solo an elder).
i guess the only thing i have to worry about is the elder dealing lots of damage to my mind...and having to constantly intimidate since i won't have master brawler anymore.
i know how to solo elder for i used to...using swords/medic, so i know how often and hard they hit. i do have kinetic armor over 84% and i sure can get more. as for the synthsteak, i don't use it for pvp or elder, but if i have to against elder i will.
from what i've seen, rifleman deal pretty good damage. i know for sure i'll be able to take out the elder a lot quicker than when i was using swords (i was only 0402 swordsman and took anywhere from 35-45min to solo an elder).
i guess the only thing i have to worry about is the elder dealing lots of damage to my mind...and having to constantly intimidate since i won't have master brawler anymore.
Barb-Wire
Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:53 am
#8
without some sort of mitigation and intimidate even with full 80% composite and all the foods you can chew the elder will kill you. the only rifle types i have seen successful tank a elder toe to toe is Swords/Rifle. but that was before they got their powers back and figured out where the weapon dealers were selling stuff.
back when i was a MCH/Rifle i successfully used pets to take out a few elders. i would conceal shot till i got the 1 point bleed then send in the pet and use posture down till i got her to walking speed. then just strafe2. if you time it right with a pet and burst run and burst run food it might be possible to kite one solo.
you can solo almost anything as long as you can do some damage to it. it just depends on how long you want to be at it.
meninus
Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:07 am
#9
yes - with TKM and Rifles you can tank an elder. (my mate aufeek did this thing)
No - with just rifles/cm, rifles/doc etc I could not. (i died trying)
but if you want to tank why do rifles? For the damage I guess?
iob
jthompson02
Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:12 am
#10
I dont think a rifleman can tank a elder solo. You take a penalty for holding a rifle when the attacker is melee
BizzyNinja
Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:20 am
#11
meninus wrote:yes - with TKM and Rifles you can tank an elder. (my mate aufeek did this thing)No - with just rifles/cm, rifles/doc etc I could not. (i died trying)but if you want to tank why do rifles? For the damage I guess?iob
if a tkm/rifleman can tank then i sure as hell could. what would a tkm have over my template?
ArcanaD
Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:12 pm
#12
Course it's possible I do it all the time, i'm a TKM/Rifleman, you need Stim E's and first aid alright as the bleed will kill you. Keep her intimidated, and watch your mind, the only way she's gonna incap you if you have Stim E's and a good heal macro is through mind . Watch out for choke, which might lower your mind secondaries, which, as everyone on this board knows, will make a rifleman kill himself if not noticed quick. If you take the time to get amusician buff then i'd say you'd be unlucky to get killed by an elder, i.e. she whips out a stun baton, or my nightmare a Power Hammer, elders with power hammers are worse that ones with stun batons in my opinion, but still soloable.
Melee mitigation is a must, and being able to switch to TKM at a hairy time is always nice, especially if you need time to regain mind. Add in a couple of warcrys if things get really bad, and with things at their worst you still have FOW to try again.
But it does take some time, especially if you're spending most of your time healing bleeds and using stims, i'd say 15 mins average per elder. So it is quicker/better, to have someone there tanking for you, a speed capped rifleman with a good T-21 can down an elder in 3 mins.
Regards,
Alaxus.
Black-Sun
Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:17 pm
#13
Well it depends what you mean by tank en elder... to me is just being able to kill it solo w/o a tank or conceal shooting it. But my awnser is most deffitnely yes, i "tank" elders when im grouped with my squadleader alt running a retreat and formup macro. On average if the spawn is decent i can kill between 10-25 elders in about 4 hours or so without a real problem. 
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