Ranger Archive
Thread: Veghash: Cost/Benefit Analysis
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Cryos_Merovingian
Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:03 pm
#1
Veghash: Cost/Benefit Analysis
I love veghash.I never harvest without it (unless it's a mistake or I'm sampling). Some ranger friends and I started to get into a debate of the 'value' of veghash... what's too expensive, when to use it and when not to, etc. This got me thinkingabout what valueveghash truly bring to my harvesting abilities when looked at in terms of actuall credits brought in. I wanted to find out how much I need to be harvesting over the duration of my veghash to make it worthwhile.
If there are any serious flaws in my methodology or my calculations, please feel free to enlighten me. Also, if someone wants to get creative, please feel free to manipulate this formula and help us rangers derive nifty new information out of it.
**Note - Disclaimer** there is a known issue with this formula where it assumes that the % increase granted by Veghash is tied to the amount you harvest, whereas it is infact tied to your creature harvest skill mod (which has dimishing marginal returns as it rises). Therefore, the "BE" figure used in this formula will be slightly inflated from actual numbers. Eliminating the actual % bonus from the formula however, will give you a very accurate number - indicating the increase in actual harvest that the veghash must provide over the course of a 1 dose buff to break even. (ie a result of 50 means that the veghash must enable you to harvest 50 additional units over the course of a 1 dose buff).
Terminology
CPC - cost per crate: The cost of purchasing 1 crate of veghash.
CPU - cost per unit: This is the dollar amount that you will be selling your harvest for.
CPD - cost per dose: This is the amount that it costs you to take 1 dose of veghash. This number is found by taking the cost of a crate of veghash, divided by the number of total doses in the crate (25units with 5 doses each). An expensive crate of veghash at 80k would then cost you 640credits per dose - 80k/(25x5)=640
VH% - the % bonus given to you by your veghash. Moderate veghash will be around 25% bonus while good veghash is between 30%-33% (33% is the absolute max)
BE - The Break Even point is what we are looking for and will tell you how many total units you must harvest over the duration of a single veghash dose to break even on credits paid for the Veghash and credits earned from selling resources using that one dose of veghash.
Methodology
Using these components above, it's fairly simple really, and the formula for the break-even point is:
BE = (CPD/CPU)/VH%
or, breaking down CPD for you
BE = cpc/units/doses/cpu/VH%
Dividing your CPD by your CPU will give you the number of units extra that you must harvest in order to break even. Dividing this number by the VH% will give you the total number of units that need to be harvested (including your bonus) over the course of the veghash buff. This was derived by the fact that I was looking for VH% x ? = CPD/CPU
Formula in Action
Scenario 1
The most expensive veghash on my server is around 80k per crate. There are 25 units in a crate with 5 doses each. The veghash is +32.93% for 12 minutes (we'll use 32% even since I think it gets rounded). The particular resource harvested here will be sold for 10cpu (pretty dang low)
In this scenario:
BE = (80k/(25*5))/10cpu/32%
BE = 64/32%
BE = 200 units in 12 minutes
Therefore, to break even on my cost of a single dose of this particular veghash, I must harvest 200 units of this resource over the course of 12minutes
The most expensive veghash on my server is around 80k per crate. There are 25 units in a crate with 5 doses each. The veghash is +32.93% for 12 minutes (we'll use 32% even since I think it gets rounded). The particular resource harvested here will be sold for 10cpu (pretty dang low)
In this scenario:
BE = (80k/(25*5))/10cpu/32%
BE = 64/32%
BE = 200 units in 12 minutes
Therefore, to break even on my cost of a single dose of this particular veghash, I must harvest 200 units of this resource over the course of 12minutes
Scenario 2
Same as above, but selling the resource at 20cpu
BE = 32/32%
BE = 100units in 12 minutes
Same as above, but selling the resource at 20cpu
BE = 32/32%
BE = 100units in 12 minutes
Scenario 3
10cpu, 25% veghash, 50k per crate
BE = (50k/(25*5))/10cpu/25%
BE = 40
BE = 160units in 12 minutes
10cpu, 25% veghash, 50k per crate
BE = (50k/(25*5))/10cpu/25%
BE = 40
BE = 160units in 12 minutes
Scenario 4
Uber avian selling at 200cpu, 32% veghash, 80k per crate
BE = (50k/(25*5))/10cpu/25%
BE = 3.2
BE = 10units in 12 minutes
Uber avian selling at 200cpu, 32% veghash, 80k per crate
BE = (50k/(25*5))/10cpu/25%
BE = 3.2
BE = 10units in 12 minutes
Conclusion
This tells me that Veghash is a VERY good thing. Think about what you're harvesting! I was getting 300 units off of 1 voritor last night and could drop a full lair in a few minutes. I made more than my money's worth on just 1 creature... wow!
This tells me that Veghash is a VERY good thing. Think about what you're harvesting! I was getting 300 units off of 1 voritor last night and could drop a full lair in a few minutes. I made more than my money's worth on just 1 creature... wow!
One step further... actual value of veghash
Taking this even further, you can determine the actual value of one dose of veghash. To do this, you need to know how many units you harvested over a single dose buff period (12minutes). The formula below will call this "TU" (total units)
((TU*VH%)-BE)*cpu=Veghash value
applying this formula to Scenario 1 above and assuming I harvest 2000 units in 12 minutes...
= ((2k*32%)-200)*10
= 4400
Therefore, that single dose of veghash was generated an additional 4400 credits for me compared to not using any veghash.
Interesting.
Message Edited by Cryos_Merovingian on 03-02-2005 11:24 AM
Message Edited by Cryos_Merovingian on 03-02-2005 03:24 PM
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:28 pm
#3
A very helpful post. I was looking through my locals chefs vendor earlier trying to decide what foods I needed for unbuffed fighting and general rangerness and I wasnt too sure about veghash. I'll have to get some now I think.
Jaxus
Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:25 pm
#6
Great Post! (5star) love the formulas also. I may have missed this but to be sure I'll voice what may be something that may be getting overlooked. IMO the cost for vegash can only be justified if the added bonus per creature exceeds the amount needed to break even. You will get a certain harvest reguardless of vegash so that shouldn't be counted as a benefitin the calculation. So if we need to make 100 units in 12 minutes (scenerio 2) you haven't made your money back by getting 300units off a singlevoritor since using vegash may only gave you say, an added 15 units per kill.
Lets say the voritorwithout vegash would give you 285 units
with vegash lets say 300 units. 300-285 = 15 units per kill with vegash
at this rate youd need to kill7 in 12 minutes = 105 bonus units, to justify a benefit (scenerio 2)
Cryos_Merovingian
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:08 pm
#7
Jaxus wrote:
Great Post! (5star) love the formulas also. I may have missed this but to be sure I'll voice what may be something that may be getting overlooked. IMO the cost for vegash can only be justified if the added bonus per creature exceeds the amount needed to break even. You will get a certain harvest reguardless of vegash so that shouldn't be counted as a benefitin the calculation. So if we need to make 100 units in 12 minutes (scenerio 2) you haven't made your money back by getting 300units off a singlevoritor since using vegash may only gave you say, an added 15 units per kill.
Lets say the voritorwithout vegash would give you 285 units
with vegash lets say 300 units. 300-285 = 15 units per kill with vegash
at this rate youd need to kill7 in 12 minutes = 105 bonus units, to justify a benefit (scenerio 2)
This formula accounts for the difference between non-veghash and with-veghash harvesting. The final "BE" value simply translates that information into the total that you need to harvest.
Cryos_Merovingian
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:09 pm
#8
Oculus wrote:
It's not as black and white though I'm afraid.
There's one flaw in your otherwise excellent post. Veghash increases your creature harvesting skill mod and as an expample a 32 point ( not % ) increase to your skill mod doesn't equal a 32% increase in your harvest yield.
In order to get an precise picture you'd have to calculate, at each skill box, how much the 32 point increase to your current creature harvest mod, translates into real game harvest yield ( well at some point from Novice Scout to Master Ranger it might be 32% but it's not a constant ).
That's one drawback of the skill mod. It's hard to predict results since the curve of diminishing returns is unknown and, judging by the recent mistake that gave 0040 Rangers more harvest then Master Rangers, even the Devs seem to miss this point.
EDIT
Got caught up in %. It's a point increase to your skill mod, not %.
That's why the higher you get, the less of a benefit Veghash becomes.
Message Edited by Oculus on 03-02-2005 10:27 PM
Hmmmm, I thought about this but was pretty sure that it was a % increase to your harvest not to your harvest skill level. I'll have to do some testing then. If it is in fact a % increase to your harvest skill mod, then the whole equation is thrown out of what.
Can anyone confirm... is veghash a % increase to your harvest or your harvest skill mod?
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:13 pm
#9
Great work mate. I personally dont use Hash that much anymore, simply due to the fact my technique cant take it into account and it doesnt last long enough. Perhaps ill use it at a later date who knows. But yeah good stuff.
Oh yeah i always though it was a skill mod increase not a % increase with hash? Thats on of the reasons i didt like it too much (benefitted the lower ranks better in terms of % increase than a master ranger) and something i always wanted changing to % based.
Could be wrong but i thought it was always a mod increase
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 03-02-2005 10:15 PM
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:17 pm
#10
Yes its definatlya mod increase. Thought it was but wasnt sure til i checked the chef boards just now.
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:18 pm
#11
Heres the link for you if you want to take a look at some of the others too (listen in buff effect): Click Me!
Cryos_Merovingian
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:18 pm
#12
Owen-Lars wrote:
Yes its definatlya mod increase. Thought it was but wasnt sure til i checked the chef boards just now.
Well then the whole thing is borked! arg.
I can't really do anything until we have a definitive sense of how the harvest formula works which, at this point, is still based on assumptions and guesses.
Dunno what to do with this post now. Shoot.
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:20 pm
#13
Good work though 
Took some effort even though based on wrong data hehe.
/salute
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