Ranger Archive
Thread: Veghash: Cost/Benefit Analysis
Cryos_Merovingian wrote:
Owen-Lars wrote:Yes its definatly a mod increase. Thought it was but wasnt sure til i checked the chef boards just now.Well then the whole thing is borked! arg.I can't really do anything until we have a definitive sense of how the harvest formula works which, at this point, is still based on assumptions and guesses.Dunno what to do with this post now. Shoot.
Your post describes how it should be though
After they've put in % bonuses for grouping they should really change Veghash and droid rating bonuses to % instead. Makes it much easier to understand and as you've shown, to work with
Oku Kee'lus 
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Where's Otaba when we need him?
That Otaba guy seems to be a real flake, so I'll take a stab at it instead.
Veghash does indeed add to the harvesting mod itself. So, +30 veghash increases your harvesting mod to +180, if you're a non-lizard master ranger. That results in a change of 0.3 to your harvesting multiplier (2.5 becomes 2.8), granting you a 12% increase in your harvesting. Here's another twist. Because veghash adds to your modifier, it should benifit from the grouping bonus. So, if a master ranger is grouped with a non ranger, the 2.8 multiplier becomes 3.36, compared to 3.0 without the veghash. So, using +30 veghash and the 20% group bonus gives as much of a bonus as +36 veghash without the group. If you use it while grouped with a master ranger, it becomes the eqivalent of +42. Two MRs grouped, both using +30 veghash end up with a harvesting multiplier of 3.92. That's a 56.8% increase over an ungrouped MR without the food, and a 96% increase over what a solo MR used to get before the recent change in the harvesting mod!
All of those grouping numbers are speculative, as I haven't seen any data on using veghash in a group. But, I'd be surprised if it didn't work that way. It is entirely possible that there is a cap. I know that Bivoli (used by docs to increase the wound treatment mod) caps at +25.
I'm not sure if I did as well as Otaba would have, but I hope this helps.
Message Edited by Obata on 03-03-2005 02:52 AM
The "Ick"....There's one flaw in your otherwise excellent post. Veghash increases your creature harvesting skill mod and as an expample a 32 point ( not % ) increase to your skill mod doesn't equal a 32% increase in your harvest yield.
In order to get an precise picture you'd have to calculate, at each skill box, how much the 32 point increase to your current creature harvest mod, translates into real game harvest yield ( well at some point from Novice Scout to Master Ranger it might be 32% but it's not a constant ).
That's one drawback of the skill mod. It's hard to predict results since the curve of diminishing returns is unknown and, judging by the recent mistake that gave 0040 Rangers more harvest then Master Rangers, even the Devs seem to miss this point.
EDIT
Got caught up in %. It's a point increase to your skill mod, not %.
That's why the higher you get, the less of a benefit Veghash becomes.
Message Edited by Oculus on 03-02-2005 10:27 PM
If you couldn't tell that veghash adds to the Creature Harvesting mod you didn't look at it very closely. Its says +##.## to Creatur Harvesting. Things that add a percent say so. Like the Dodge food, what ever it is. But its and honest mistake, I've made that same kinda mistake lots of times.
There is no cap on CHB, and food can add as much as it can. The food it self will be limited to what ever bonus it gives at 99% experemental efectiveness.
There is no cap on creature harvesting.
There is no cap on creature harvesting.
There is no cap on creature harvesting.
There is no cap on creature harvesting.
There is no cap on creature harvesting.
Spread the word.
WOO HOO!
Obata wrote:Veghash does indeed add to the harvesting mod itself. So, +30 veghash increases your harvesting mod to +180, if you're a non-lizard master ranger. That results in a change of 0.3 to your harvesting multiplier (2.5 becomes 2.8), granting you a 12% increase in your harvesting.
I'm not doubting you are correct, but I'm curious how you determined the highlighted numbers?
ScoerFusou wrote:
Well a fellow guildie(who is also a Master Ranger) and I have been hunting a lot together since this last patch and he uses Veg and I do not. From what I've seen Veg is OK but not great. We were on Lok the other night collecting animal bone from whatever we saw and on mostoccasions he was only harvesting 10 more units then I was. Now I'm not sure what mod his Veg was but it better have been the +32 Veg that I make with my alt because he knows he gets it for free! If in fact it was the +32 stuff, I don't see the real benefit in using it for an extra 10 units of resources for 15m especially since we wipe out a lair in less then 2 minutes and waste another 3 or 4 walking to more spawns sometimes. I'd much rather save my stomach for emergencies for canape, won-won or Kiwik Clusjo Swirl, or perhaps even Vercupti in case things get crazy. Or perhaps some Synthsteak or Pikatta Pie, maybe some Vegeparsine. I'm not saying Veghash isn't a good food, I'd just rather use something thats gonna save my butt in a tight spot instead of having to bite it cuz im full on Veg. Besides with my partner at my side I'm already pulling in amazing quantities of the resource anyway.
Well that's an interesting point, especially when you consider the CURB in the mix. From what I understand (and it's really all specualtion at this point) buffs are going to get a slight nerf and food is anticipated to play a much bigger role in keeping you in line. With this in mind, one has to consider the benefits using veghash.
I'm a little shocked that your friend was only harvesting 10 units more than you over the duration of an entire veghash buff. I don't have hard data for you here, but that does shock me that it's that small of a difference.
It's an interesting point of discussion though to think about the benefits of veghash when stomach space is truly an issue. As of right now, I odn't need food if I'm buffed. And if I'm hunting rancors or voritors, I'm definitely buffed.
Cryos_Merovingian wrote:
ScoerFusou wrote:
Well a fellow guildie(who is also a Master Ranger) and I have been hunting a lot together since this last patch and he uses Veg and I do not. From what I've seen Veg is OK but not great. We were on Lok the other night collecting animal bone from whatever we saw and on mostoccasions he was only harvesting 10 more units then I was. Now I'm not sure what mod his Veg was but it better have been the +32 Veg that I make with my alt because he knows he gets it for free! If in fact it was the +32 stuff, I don't see the real benefit in using it for an extra 10 units of resources for 15m especially since we wipe out a lair in less then 2 minutes and waste another 3 or 4 walking to more spawns sometimes. I'd much rather save my stomach for emergencies for canape, won-won or Kiwik Clusjo Swirl, or perhaps even Vercupti in case things get crazy. Or perhaps some Synthsteak or Pikatta Pie, maybe some Vegeparsine. I'm not saying Veghash isn't a good food, I'd just rather use something thats gonna save my butt in a tight spot instead of having to bite it cuz im full on Veg. Besides with my partner at my side I'm already pulling in amazing quantities of the resource anyway.
Well that's an interesting point, especially when you consider the CURB in the mix. From what I understand (and it's really all specualtion at this point) buffs are going to get a slight nerf and food is anticipated to play a much bigger role in keeping you in line. With this in mind, one has to consider the benefits using veghash.
I'm a little shocked that your friend was only harvesting 10 units more than you over the duration of an entire veghash buff. I don't have hard data for you here, but that does shock me that it's that small of a difference.
It's an interesting point of discussion though to think about the benefits of veghash when stomach space is truly an issue. As of right now, I odn't need food if I'm buffed. And if I'm hunting rancors or voritors, I'm definitely buffed.
Oh no...it was 10 units more per harvest...so overall he was pullin in a bit more then me. All I was saying(and these numbers are off the top of my head so don't take them literally) is say we go out for an hour and I pull in about 25k bone not using Veg, with his Veg he'd only be pullin in about 27-28k...3k is a lot but when your already pullin in 25k an hour is that 3k really worth it? Personally I don't think it is, i like to be able to keep myself alive so I don't have to take a trip to the cloner and then waste time finding a doc for healing and more buffs. Also if you go out unbuffed(which sometimes I do if i cant get a free buff from my guild doc, yes im spoiled like that and I almost never pay for a buff or wait in buff lines) Vegtakes upstomach room which could otherwise be used forthe foods I mentioned earlier. Like I said,it is a useful food, I just don't see it as a HUGE benefit and I'd rather use other foods.