Ranger Archive
Thread: CU Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler = 1k HAM most it seems.
Page 1 of 2
Rooks
Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
#1
Well, seems my entire Template is now no better than a Crafters when it comes to Combat.
According to early reports on the Creature handler forum, CH skills give NO HAM Bonuses either.
So someone like me who is a Master in both, gets nothing but his base 1k HAM now, plus a few hundred from basic marksman skills.
.
.With the weapon skill classes being increased, my current template means I have to drop Pistoleer boxs and will just have basic marksman skill boxs cause of the Ranegd Support columns now required. I cannot even get Novice Pistoleer anymore .
.Bad bad bad news for me.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:19 pm
#2
Rooks wrote:
Well, seems my entire Template is now no better than a Crafters when it comes to Combat.
According to early reports on the Creature handler forum, CH skills give NO HAM Bonuses either.
So someone like me who is a Master in both, gets nothing but his base 1k HAM now, plus a few hundred from basic marksman skills.
With the weapon skill classes being increased, my current template means I have to drop Pistoleer boxs and will just have basic marksman skill boxs cause of the Ranegd Support columns now required. I cannot even get Novice Pistoleer anymore
Bad bad bad news for me.
Is there a Ranger already that only went Ranger????
I'm going to do Ranger first...
Then CH
It's my current template too.
Rather weird tough, CH is considered a combat class (via their pets) and should get health accordingly...
Even weirder situation then the Ranger, as CH is specifically mentioned within the CU notes.
Dark_0ne
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:32 am
#3
maybe the pets get the HAM bonuses ?
just an "off the wall" thought ....
just an "off the wall" thought ....
Oculus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:41 am
#4
Well it kinda makes sense.
The CH shouldn't get the CL increase. Since he will get higher CL pets as he levels.
The CH isn't supposed to do the fighting, his pets are.
Allthough a CL increase would be nice I guess. Commanding Rancors and getting hit with full force by chubas is going to be ackward but anything else would be a bit unfair.
Master Ranger | Master CH is hosed though but any template with master ranger is going to be that way
The CH shouldn't get the CL increase. Since he will get higher CL pets as he levels.
The CH isn't supposed to do the fighting, his pets are.
Allthough a CL increase would be nice I guess. Commanding Rancors and getting hit with full force by chubas is going to be ackward but anything else would be a bit unfair.
Master Ranger | Master CH is hosed though but any template with master ranger is going to be that way
Oku Kee'lus
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:47 am
#5
Oculus wrote:
Well it kinda makes sense.
The CH shouldn't get the CL increase. Since he will get higher CL pets as he levels.
The CH isn't supposed to do the fighting, his pets are.
Allthough a CL increase would be nice I guess. Commanding Rancors and getting hit with full force by chubas is going to be ackward but anything else would be a bit unfair.
Master Ranger | Master CH is hosed though but any template with master ranger is going to be that way
Then the CH is in general at a big disadvantage: when aggroed (s)he will not be able to call pets out so how is definding/attacking going to take plae? None. With no health increase it means 1 blow and incapped,,,,
OR
as alternative allways have a pet out, which already causes problems live:
* pathfinding
* pets aggroeing others (not very well to control, due to hate system, like pet squills attacking everything)
* pets running off, chasing a target for example
* pets disappearing mid fight
So where does that leave the CH?
/ponder
* whatif a rifleman could not geta rifle equipedwhile being attacked (OR) switched?
* whatif a pikeman's ns lance decides to magically disappear
* what would a tkm think when his equiped vk decides to attack something completely different?
* whatif a jedi's ls would follow it's target that it has been thrown at and not to return?
I think all those professions would holler, call, yell for MDK (murder death kill) so it would be fixed within 1 day. CH's have had to put up with THESE problems for months now.
Ow and for those telling that you should not be able to call pets, consider this:
* any WEAPONS (except pets) can be stored in crates. Pets can't/aren't (after they're READY to be put to work: taming, command training)
* You can carry a lot of crates. For pets you have limited room in datapad
* You can change a weapons ANYtime, without a penalty prior, during and post combat. Pets can ONLY be called/stored BEFORE combat (15s delay PER PET) and AFTER (30s delay)
In effect the CH is much more hindred during combat then ANY other combat profession.
/rant off
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 04-08-2005 12:55 PM
BioEngine
Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:19 am
#6
Yes, this is a bad piece of decision-making on the Dev's part. Creature Handlers WEREmentioned in the CU notes, and they should also get the Health Bonuses. Maybe we should unite with the CH'sto get the CU fixed for both of us, because the only logical template for Rangers who have skill points tied up elsewhere (outside of other combat skills) would take Creature Handler skills. It's like being a Master Combat Medic and a Master Doctor with Medic's trees as they are in the Combat Upgrade.
This is bad. This is very bad.
The Dev's don't even know what to do with our professions, so they just say we sorta fit into the Star Wars universe but aren't important enough to be equal to other professions that can fight. The only abilities that Creature Handlers can have outside combat is to train creatures, and that is used to train their pets to be useful in combat as well as obtain mounted creatures for other people to use.
MiniDato
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:14 am
#7
It is actually potentially even more 'challenging' that that even taking into account all of the 'creature features' mentioned above.
Consider this scenario. Master CH, Master Ranger, as the original poster has already pointed out he cannot take even a Novice Ranged profession due to the increase in pre-requisite to include Ranged Support line. This is exactly what I am facing on live as a 'former' MCH/Master Ranger + Novice Rifleman. As I would effectively drop to rifles IV and knowing how universally inneffective that would be, I took the challenge of dropping it all together and going MCH/Master Ranger + Medic Crafting line and BE Tissues III. Basically making Pets my 100% combat ability and crafting pet stims to keep them going.
Under the current proposed CU I may already be hampered by the lack of increased Health for being a Ranger (potentially..not confirmed), the lack of increased Health for being a CH (Also not confirmed...but also not unconfirmed either), all of the Creature bugs presented above (kudos as thats exactly what I have been saying for months), but heres the final kicker....
Even if I have no combat skills whatsoever and am relying 100% on my pets to not only take the agro, but also dispense the damage, I potentially cannot even use traps to help them out and apply stats to the target because:
a) They dont work vs NPC's
b) The CU design docs say that de-buffing will ALSO pull agro the same as outdamaging the tankers. So if I lob a trap, I pull the agro onto me and my impressive 1000 health and lack of defence mods vanishes faster than a chocolate fire-guard!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a challenge, thats why I became a Ranger and a CH in the first place 
. I dont mind not being uber, but the current state of affairs really does appear on paper at least to render those characterful players who do CH, or Ranger or heaven forbid BOTH! pretty much redundant....and thats unjust in my book.
. I dont mind not being uber, but the current state of affairs really does appear on paper at least to render those characterful players who do CH, or Ranger or heaven forbid BOTH! pretty much redundant....and thats unjust in my book.I am just living in hope now that the Devs see the sense in this and ensure both ranger and CH count towards CL in one form or another, other wise two professions that are already rarer than Jedi really will become extinct and frankly the game will be a duller place for it.
*crosses fingers it doesn't come to that*
Still, on the brightside though not having a rifle is getting my pets out in the fresh air a lot more these days 
Regards
Mini-D
Oculus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:32 am
#8
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Oculus wrote:
Well it kinda makes sense.
The CH shouldn't get the CL increase. Since he will get higher CL pets as he levels.
The CH isn't supposed to do the fighting, his pets are.
Allthough a CL increase would be nice I guess. Commanding Rancors and getting hit with full force by chubas is going to be ackward but anything else would be a bit unfair.
Master Ranger | Master CH is hosed though but any template with master ranger is going to be that wayThen the CH is in general at a big disadvantage: when aggroed (s)he will not be able to call pets out so how is definding/attacking going to take plae? None. With no health increase it means 1 blow and incapped,,,,
OR
as alternative allways have a pet out, which already causes problems live:
* pathfinding
* pets aggroeing others (not very well to control, due to hate system, like pet squills attacking everything)
* pets running off, chasing a target for example
* pets disappearing mid fight
So where does that leave the CH?
/ponder* whatif a rifleman could not get a rifle equiped while being attacked (OR) switched?* whatif a pikeman's ns lance decides to magically disappear* what would a tkm think when his equiped vk decides to attack something completely different?* whatif a jedi's ls would follow it's target that it has been thrown at and not to return?I think all those professions would holler, call, yell for MDK (murder death kill) so it would be fixed within 1 day. CH's have had to put up with THESE problems for months now.Ow and for those telling that you should not be able to call pets, consider this:* any WEAPONS (except pets) can be stored in crates. Pets can't/aren't (after they're READY to be put to work: taming, command training)* You can carry a lot of crates. For pets you have limited room in datapad* You can change a weapons ANYtime, without a penalty prior, during and post combat. Pets can ONLY be called/stored BEFORE combat (15s delay PER PET) and AFTER (30s delay)In effect the CH is much more hindred during combat then ANY other combat profession./rant offMessage Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 04-08-2005 12:55 PM
It most certainly isn't perfect... but:
CH get their high level pets. That is the replacement for the CH getting CL himself.
Now if the CH was to receive the CL as well, the CH would only need a basic weapon cert to get the best of both worlds.
A master CH's pets should be equal to a master combat profession. If the CH himself is to receive the CL. Then the overall power of the pets need to be toned down to take this into consideration.
I guess that's the best way to go, considering your points.
Rooks
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:38 am
#9
Oculus wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Oculus wrote:
Well it kinda makes sense.
The CH shouldn't get the CL increase. Since he will get higher CL pets as he levels.
The CH isn't supposed to do the fighting, his pets are.
Allthough a CL increase would be nice I guess. Commanding Rancors and getting hit with full force by chubas is going to be ackward but anything else would be a bit unfair.
Master Ranger | Master CH is hosed though but any template with master ranger is going to be that way
Then the CH is in general at a big disadvantage: when aggroed (s)he will not be able to call pets out so how is definding/attacking going to take plae? None. With no health increase it means 1 blow and incapped,,,,
OR
as alternative allways have a pet out, which already causes problems live:
* pathfinding
* pets aggroeing others (not very well to control, due to hate system, like pet squills attacking everything)
* pets running off, chasing a target for example
* pets disappearing mid fight
So where does that leave the CH?
/ponder
* whatif a rifleman could not get a rifle equiped while being attacked (OR) switched?
* whatif a pikeman's ns lance decides to magically disappear
* what would a tkm think when his equiped vk decides to attack something completely different?
* whatif a jedi's ls would follow it's target that it has been thrown at and not to return?
I think all those professions would holler, call, yell for MDK (murder death kill) so it would be fixed within 1 day. CH's have had to put up with THESE problems for months now.
Ow and for those telling that you should not be able to call pets, consider this:
* any WEAPONS (except pets) can be stored in crates. Pets can't/aren't (after they're READY to be put to work: taming, command training)
* You can carry a lot of crates. For pets you have limited room in datapad
* You can change a weapons ANYtime, without a penalty prior, during and post combat. Pets can ONLY be called/stored BEFORE combat (15s delay PER PET) and AFTER (30s delay)
In effect the CH is much more hindred during combat then ANY other combat profession.
/rant off
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 04-08-2005 12:55 PM
It most certainly isn't perfect... but:
CH get their high level pets. That is the replacement for the CH getting CL himself.
Now if the CH was to receive the CL as well, the CH would only need a basic weapon cert to get the best of both worlds.
A master CH's pets should be equal to a master combat profession. If the CH himself is to receive the CL. Then the overall power of the pets need to be toned down to take this into consideration.
I guess that's the best way to go, considering your points.
You do realize that Pets have been useless in PVP and most PVE for the last 1 year since the Dec 03 nerf, right?
They took armor away from PEts, added 75% damage reduction for PVP and basically neutured the class entirely.
NOW we cannot even get HAM bonuses?
What the CU is doing is that ONLY riflemen/BH or Commando/Fencer or TKM/Sword will be the Combat classes, period.
All others will be "mid level" or "low level" and will slowly become obsolete.
The CU is fubaring MUCH more than it is fixing.
Oculus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:46 am
#10
So you've actually tested the pets on TC5 aye?
The pets we're nerfed for a combat rebalance that never came.
Now that creatures are being re-balanced so are pets.
What do you prefer. Useful pets and no CL increase or a CL increase and weak pets?
I thought CH was all about your pets. Or you might as well pick up a range/melee combat profession.
The pets we're nerfed for a combat rebalance that never came.
Now that creatures are being re-balanced so are pets.
What do you prefer. Useful pets and no CL increase or a CL increase and weak pets?
I thought CH was all about your pets. Or you might as well pick up a range/melee combat profession.
Rooks
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:55 am
#11
Oculus wrote:
So you've actually tested the pets on TC5 aye?
The pets we're nerfed for a combat rebalance that never came.
Now that creatures are being re-balanced so are pets.
What do you prefer. Useful pets and no CL increase or a CL increase and weak pets?
I thought CH was all about your pets. Or you might as well pick up a range/melee combat profession.
My template is considered "Low Level" in the Cu cause I have NO Elite Combat Profession.
Now, do you really think they are going to make PEts, which they have been stagnating for over a year, AS powerful as an Elite Profession?
This is just an example of the major FLAWS in the CU system, they are trying to take our existing classes and force them into the cookiee cutter level system from Wow and EQ2.
Oculus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:58 am
#12
Rooks wrote:
Oculus wrote:
So you've actually tested the pets on TC5 aye?
The pets we're nerfed for a combat rebalance that never came.
Now that creatures are being re-balanced so are pets.
What do you prefer. Useful pets and no CL increase or a CL increase and weak pets?
I thought CH was all about your pets. Or you might as well pick up a range/melee combat profession.My template is considered "Low Level" in the Cu cause I have NO Elite Combat Profession.
Now, do you really think they are going to make PEts, which they have been stagnating for over a year, AS powerful as an Elite Profession?
This is just an example of the major FLAWS in the CU system, they are trying to take our existing classes and force them into the cookiee cutter level system from Wow and EQ2.
Erm... yes. Look at the CU documents. CH is considered a combat profession on par with the others. They haven't posted offense, defense, crowd control numbers for one reason; you aren't the one with the raw power. Your pets are.
Caliet
Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:04 am
#13
Well so much for the only template I have enjoyed outside of entertainer. Looks like both will have the exact same combat capabilities. Pets make nice tanks under the right conditions, but they deal about the same damage as a CDEF pistol. So if I continue working on this template, I will have a mighty SG82 showerhead rifle to pretend to be assisting them with. Oh Joy!
Oh well I guess I can always set up a camp outside Mos Eisley and have my pets hunt nerffed Kreetles while I hide behind the crafting stations.
Page 1 of 2