Ranger Archive

Message Edited by Nemo0 on 04-03-2004 06:54 PM

Message Edited by Nemo0 on 04-03-2004 07:02 PM

Message Edited by Nemo0 on 04-05-2004 07:56 PM

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777erc wrote:
I like. Best plan ive heard for traps yet. Im a little confused with the enhancers?? Would these be a second or third... effect piece put into the trap making the effect more powerfull? Or do they make the accuracy better. And can u put a diffrent trap effects together like a blind, stun and dizzy trap.

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I had considered the idea of using multiples of each effect to determine if it hit but this caused one slight problem: each effect would have a different chance of hitting. Instead, I included a "Trap Power" enhancer that can be stacked to make the trap more likely to hit. I'm not sure on the specifics (as I haven't seen the code) but this seems like it would be easier to implement. Checking each effect seperately needs a lot more checks. Although I do prefer that option. As for adjusting the power of the effect, I'm not sure how feasible that is. Does anyone know how effects actually work? I think accuracy is probably the easiest thing to play with and adding other options would be harder (but better).

And part of the point of the idea is to put multiple effects together. I wanted something where you could make a trap that would actually be useful. A trap that can put lots of states on a lower level creature is useful (at least it's a lot more useful than what we currently have). A trap that can put a couple of states on a lot of midlevel creatures is useful. A trap that can put a state on really high level creature is useful. This system lets you make a trade off. You can have a lot of states on one lower level creature, a couple of states on a group of mid level creatures, and a decent chance of a state on a high level creature. And this lets you make a trade off between chance of hitting, number of effects, stack size, and AoE. Experimentation would only further complicate the system and cause us to waste good resources.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

A trap would be able to knock down would be a variation of a bolo-type trap. This trap would be a weighted spur on a rope that would entangle and potentially knock down the target in question.

Look at some of the aboriginal weapons in Australia, the bolo that they use wraps around the legs, entangling them and allowing their foward momentum to hurl their enemy to the ground, where he is easily dispatched.

Other cultures from "so-called primitive" such as the Aztec, Mayan, Native American have used variations of the bolo weapon/ trap all the way to modern SWAT teams that sometimes have a high powered ballistic bolo weapon that can incapacitate and knock down a target.

This would be a valuable addition to our arsenal.

NemoO

nice job, by far one of the best additions and fine-tuning ideas on traps ive seen in a while.

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GTOfire wrote:

I simply love the sleeping gas and AR reduction trap for their possibilities.

A few things though:

1. how does a trap knock something down? It'd be more of a grenade really, I don't really think it fits, but that's just me.

A trap to knockdown would just need to have some sort of shockwave. Look at something like a hurricane--it can knockdown a house without too much trouble. Sending some sort of pressure wave should be able to knockdown a creature or an NPC. The other option is something like Bolas. They wrap up the targets legs causing them to fall over. There are lots of ways a knockdown trap could work.

2. AR reduction is VERY powerful, and I do mean VERY. Using a medium armour sword I do almost double the damage on a none-armour enemy then on a light-armour target. I also think that a Ranger KNOWS where the armour is weak, and can point it out to fellow players, but how would a trap do that? Again, I just don't see it. I'd much rather see this ability as a natural Creature Knowledge perk that makes us more effective by default. If there is an AR reduction trap, I reckon it'd be better to have a -10% resists reduction, because a whole AR level is a LOT.

AR reduction is very powerful only on targets that actually have armor. And the idea is to make it powerful. Only a Master Ranger can make a trap like that. A lower level player could use it but a lower level player can also have buffs and wear armor. But they still would need at least Master Scout and they would be relying on a Master Ranger to make the trap for them. And they wouldn't be able to hit anything big with it. Plus, an AR reduction is much easier than a -10% resist reduction. And you are still better off using a weapon they are vulnerable to. And the increase is 25% if you have a higher AP weapon or double damage for a lower AP weapon. As long as the resource requirements are large and the effect is reasonably short, this can work. If I had to use over 100 resources from multiple planets to make a set of the traps, they would be expensive. And let's say the reduction lasts for only 10 seconds. Double damage for 10 seconds for such a large costseems reasonable to me. And it would have a very low chance of hitting unless you stacked it with some power enhancers (remember that armor only starts to come in at CL 50 or so).

3. Okay, so according to the whole system you describe, at Master Ranger I can craft a trap that does dizzy, stun, blind, knockdown, root, has extra uses, reduces their armour and doesall that on an area of effect. Hell yeah, I love it. But erm... considering our current highest level traps have two state effects at most, I reckon 8 slots is a little too much. A solution would be to have 3 slots maximum, with one slotbeing10 seconds duration, and if you add another slot with the same type, it becomes 30, another slot of the same type and it becomes 45.

Think of it this way. You can craft the trap you want listed above. But, with the number of slots used, you would only have about a 5m AoE (not much) and it would have trouble hitting anything larger than CL 20 or so (for a Master Ranger). If you wanted to use something like that on a rancor nest, you would need to put a few power enhancers in. And you would also probably want a larger AoE, meaning more of the AoE enhancers have to go in. Which would then limit the number of the effects you could actually use. So you could have an uber durni trap as listed above or you could have something that traps rancors in a radius of 10m and dizzy/stuns them with a 95% chance of success. And that could be using an 8 slot trap. The actual balance issues would need to be worked out for it but the whole idea is to let you make an uber trap for low levels and a decent trap for harder stuff.

So you craft a trap with three slots, you can choose to make it a 45 second blind, or a 10 second blind, stun and dizzy, a KD and a 10 second dizzy (KD being a powerful PvP tool, it could require 2 slots, same for AoE)

the AR would require all three slots, stuff like that.

This might be better but it might require alot more coding. The power enhancer above is not meant to adjust the strength of the effects (as I'm not sure how hard that would be to code in), only the ability for the effect to hit. If it's not too hard to code up, I'd love to be able to adjust the actual power of the effects but I'm guessing that would be a lot more work. You could do that by sticking multiples of the effect into slots. As for stuff like the AR reduction, remember that only big creatures have any AR at all. So you would almost be forced to use several of the other slots for power enhancers. If the different effects could hit or miss on the same trap (i.e. you have a chance to knockdown that is different from the chance to dizzy) then the best idea (in my mind) is to remove the power enhancer and make it so that you have to use multiples of the same effect to increase that effects power. So you could make a trap with a 10% chance to add all the states to a decent level mob or you could choose a few of the effects to concentrate on. The idea of the power enhancer came because I think it is much harder to code in different success levels for the different effects. The 8 slots are there so you can have something like an 10-15m AoE stun/blind that can actually hit a rancor with a decent chance of success.

4. aside from the above points, I love the concept of modular traps

I think the specifics might need a bit of work but I like them too.

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Message Edited by Nemo0 on 04-03-2004 10:07 PM

I think i like this idea so much because it is simple and flexible. Now if i can be adapted a little for camps. I know the outdoorsman has a similar camp concept but i think its a little to complicated.

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

Ranger Calc's thoughts: I like most of it. I like how you balanced the Master level traps such that you can have many states, but can only use it on lower level creatures, and vice versa. I am not too keen on AR reduction. Seems too powerful.

Corespondent Calc's thoughts: You tried to keep it simple?!?!?! You failed!!! . For everyone's knowledge, the devs make it sound like adding certs is a pain and a last resort (unofficial comment here).

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Ehhh? Just how the hell do they Expect to Fix Trapping without adding certs for new traps? Seems like a logical progression to me...."Rangers want more BETTER traps....Ok Give them better traps, But don't add Certs for em....thats to hard and makes my head hurt".....Heh. I don't see how the can Improve Traping without adding certs, in a way to prevent Master Rangers Selling Supper traps to Novice scouts, like doctors selling stim B's, And if that were the case it would CERTAINLY break the game. Maybe if they added Just the Schematics and Put Requierd traping mod restrictions on each level of the Shell, Without Expirementation on them it would Pretty much mean you have to be master ranger to use a master trap and so on down threw the line

I would have to agree that the AR reduction would be a little insane, Both in PvE and PvP.....That would also be "To hard" to program/code i imagine....Perhaps a Defense Debuff, *Throw trap, Target looses 100 Melee and Ranged Defense* Kinda like our already existing traps. It would Still be VERY Benificial, Yet Not as Game breaking as basicly droping EVERY creature in the game 1 AR to establish balance.....And i have no idea what the effects would be in PvP....I'm picturing Double damage mode?

Anyhow, the Rest i Absolutly LOVE! the Power Modules idea is Freakin AWESOME! i don't know how the would code it to work, but it Still Rocks! Maybe with Just General "Component" slots that any trap component can be droped in, each with its own effects? Wait a min....thats what you said isn't it?

I like. Best plan ive heard for traps yet. Im a little confused with the enhancers?? Would these be a second or third... effect piece put into the trap making the effect more powerfull? Or do they make the accuracy better. And can u put a diffrent trap effects together like a blind, stun and dizzy trap.

I simply love the sleeping gas and AR reduction trap for their possibilities.

A few things though:

1. how does a trap knock something down? It'd be more of a grenade really, I don't really think it fits, but that's just me.

2. AR reduction is VERY powerful, and I do mean VERY. Using a medium armour sword I do almost double the damage on a none-armour enemy then on a light-armour target. I also think that a Ranger KNOWS where the armour is weak, and can point it out to fellow players, but how would a trap do that? Again, I just don't see it. I'd much rather see this ability as a natural Creature Knowledge perk that makes us more effective by default. If there is an AR reduction trap, I reckon it'd be better to have a -10% resists reduction, because a whole AR level is a LOT.

I like the idea/ideas.

Only thing I would add is somehow interlink trapping and hunting to make the Devs happy and to help tone down the dabblers. More work, but brings more balance. Fact is, interlink survival (you get the ability to make the trap - the schematic - possibly using the craft machines in the camps) with trapping, the ability to use the trap. Without both, failure.

Even without that - wellt thought out

JB

yeah, it'd be a lot simpler to have the power of things high by default, and limit the number of things you can inflict. It'd be a real pain to experiment exactly how many power enhancers I need to trap a Rancor or a Krayt Dragon. I can imagine a huge animal like a Krayt would require 7, in which case I'd get 1 effect, in which case it'd be simpler to craft a regular sonic pulse or whatever, since that works on Krayts too.

It's not a bad concept to have the uber for simple and decent for high level, but let's face it, how often do we master rangers trap CL20 animals? I'd rather not worry about the amount of power enhancers required to make something work for what I'm hunting, if that means I can only inflict three states, I'm fine with that.

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JediQuic wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

Ranger Calc's thoughts: I like most of it. I like how you balanced the Master level traps such that you can have many states, but can only use it on lower level creatures, and vice versa. I am not too keen on AR reduction. Seems too powerful.

Corespondent Calc's thoughts: You tried to keep it simple?!?!?! You failed!!! . For everyone's knowledge, the devs make it sound like adding certs is a pain and a last resort (unofficial comment here).

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Ehhh? Just how the hell do they Expect to Fix Trapping without adding certs for new traps? Seems like a logical progression to me...."Rangers want more BETTER traps....Ok Give them better traps, But don't add Certs for em....thats to hard and makes my head hurt".....Heh. I don't see how the can Improve Traping without adding certs, in a way to prevent Master Rangers Selling Supper traps to Novice scouts, like doctors selling stim B's, And if that were the case it would CERTAINLY break the game. Maybe if they added Just the Schematics and Put Requierd traping mod restrictions on each level of the Shell, Without Expirementation on them it would Pretty much mean you have to be master ranger to use a master trap and so on down threw the line

That's the idea. I just figured certs were easier than giving required use levels. Either way works.

I would have to agree that the AR reduction would be a little insane, Both in PvE and PvP.....That would also be "To hard" to program/code i imagine....Perhaps a Defense Debuff, *Throw trap, Target looses 100 Melee and Ranged Defense* Kinda like our already existing traps. It would Still be VERY Benificial, Yet Not as Game breaking as basicly droping EVERY creature in the game 1 AR to establish balance.....And i have no idea what the effects would be in PvP....I'm picturing Double damage mode?

The idea is to give the Master something really powerful. As it is, /strafeshot2 (a Master Rifleman attack) does a LOT more than double damage. I'm guessing most combat professions have attacks that can do similar. And, for anything big, you really would want a Master Ranger throwing the trap to have a good chance of success. As it is, I've been on Krayt hunts where it took almost an hour to kill the krayt (it was an ancient, 95% resists to everything, heavy armor). That was with over 20 people shooting at it. And it still had no loot. A trap like this would have made it a bit easier. And the power could be offset by extremely high resource costs. Look at the people wearing 90% resist composite. That's a lot more powerful than this trap would be. And it is just strong enough to turn a PvP battle from a loss into a victory. Sort of like a CM can currently do. Or a Doctor. Or what a Squad Leader should be able to do. And those are all support professions. And, by making players close to a krayt in CL for trapping, you would really want a lot of power enhancers in any trap you use in PvP.

Anyhow, the Rest i Absolutly LOVE! the Power Modules idea is Freakin AWESOME! i don't know how the would code it to work, but it Still Rocks! Maybe with Just General "Component" slots that any trap component can be droped in, each with its own effects? Wait a min....thats what you said isn't it?

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