Ranger Archive
Thread: Making a Trap Master a Master of Traps
JBMat wrote:
I like the idea/ideas.
Only thing I would add is somehow interlink trapping and hunting to make the Devs happy and to help tone down the dabblers. More work, but brings more balance. Fact is, interlink survival (you get the ability to make the trap - the schematic - possibly using the craft machines in the camps) with trapping, the ability to use the trap. Without both, failure.
Even without that - wellt thought out
JB
I'd be perfectly happy to do such a thing. Or put the certs in the survival tree as well. That would really keep dabblers out. You would need 2 trees from Ranger to be able to use the big traps on big creatures. 1 tree would make you hit more often with any trap, the second tree gives you the ability to use better traps. Only with both would you have a good chance of hitting anything big. Just moving the crafting would keep the use tree extremely powerful (people don't mind buying stims or high end buff packs, they probably wouldn't mind buying traps).
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
PithrenDarkstar wrote:
Would we actually need certs? Why not give every trap a certain level of trapping skill mod you need to use it, rather than adding a specific cert to each one? Could be experimentable, too, to sell to slightly lower level scouts/rangers.
Yes and no. We need something to control who can use what traps. A trapping level would work. But I would prefer not to have any experimentation in the system. Experimentation means that resource qualities matter. And that means that we would need to start stockpiling and such. Althought a more fluid method where each shell had a base level and each effect/enhancer added to that level. But the simplest method is to have just one level for each trap type. And you will see peoplebuying traps anyway for better effects (especially in a 2 tree system). I don't know what other people think but I'd rather not have to worry about resource quality on my traps. Although minimal experimentation might be more interesting I'd rather sell the good resources. I don't like the idea of a Ranger needing to store up their hides/bones/meat to make really nice traps. They should be able to do it in the field with whatever they can find. But I'd be fine with something like experimenting down the usage requirements (with a max of level 100--i.e. any Master Ranger can throw any trap). Although it would make the power spread too easy--if someone can use a Master level trap without getting Master then they will be a LOT more powerful). I prefer giving higher level effects to higher level Rangers so that lower level Rangers want Master made traps for the different effects, not the extra power. But that is just me.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
PithrenDarkstar wrote:
All I meant was experimenting on the usage level. That way, you balance the good quality resources that you don't sell by selling traps to people who can't use them normally
A few points on this:
- This puts much more powerful traps in the hands of lower level players. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it can be hard to balance. Should an 8 slot trap really be usable by someone who hasn't spent the skill pointsfor Master? I don't know but giving them the ability to use a 7 slot trap that has to be crafted by a Master seems fair enough. In the setup above, the certs for a shell come one level before you could make the same shell and any effect/enhancer will fit into any shell. So you can always get a more powerful trap by going to a higher level Ranger. But we wouldn't be relegated to a crafting profession.
- Higher level Rangers will still be able to sell traps to lower level ones. Putting high level effects into low level traps would be very useful. For instance, a lure effect in a 2 slot shell could be used by a Master Scout in the proposed system. But they wouldn't be able to make it without spending a lot more skill points. Or a 2 slot dizzy/knockdown trap for the BHs that would want them (even if the success rate was somewhat lower than if they spent skill points in Ranger).
- Selling resources is not THAT big a concern to me (I end up giving away most of mine anyway). I just don't want to need to collect and store high quality resources for making traps. I want to just hunt down what I need and use it. Putting ANY experimentation into the system almost forces me to stockpile and worry about my resources. I'd rather just worry about the types of traps I want. Experimentation is not a bad thing. It can be a fun way to differentiate things. But I think this system is flexible enough to not need experimentation. I just don't like the idea of a Ranger needing to carry around a huge pack of hides/meat/bones/whatever else to make decent traps. I'd rather be able to just wander into the wilderness and make traps from stuff I find lying around.
Discussion is a good thing. Do most Rangers want traps to have experimentation? Or would most Rangers prefer a system where they don't have to worry about resource quality? It is easy to toss many lines of experimentation into the above system. But would the system turn out better or worse for it? It definately would make it more complex (and harder to code).
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
GTOfire wrote:
heh, if you put it that way
It wasn't clear to me that the base effectiveness of traps would remain the same, so if I didn't put in any power enhancers, I'd still be able to trap Krayts, but the chance would be as low as it is now: doable, but sometimes frustrating.
I can also see the KD effect possibility.
Only thing I'm still not convinced about is the AR reduction. You say rifleman can do strafeshot which is more then double damage. I interpret that as a suggestion 'so why shouldn't we get that?'. Easy, we're not a combat profession. If we become Rifleman masters as well, we can do strafeshot2 as well. Not to mention I just don't see anything that could make the animal's weak spots light up, it's sci-fi I know, but everything else is sort of graspable in it's technical application.
What I would like is to get a damage bonus for our animal knowledge as well as our hunting experience. The Knowledge part would also apply to the group, because it's explainable to the others. The experience part only applies to us. I much prefer that to requiring a trap for the same effect. More on that in the huge-ass Ranger reviewarticle I'm writing up since I was bored
.Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Look at how doctors craft. They can make low level sims more powerful, of make high level stims easier to use, but less powerful. Even then, they can't make doctor level stims useable by a Medic. It seems to be a balance that works.
That is a big part of the idea with this. Except we remove the need for experimentation and add in a more tactical approach to it. I don't like the idea of needing to stockpile resources to get good traps. But I do like the idea of customizing my traps to be useful for the situation I am in. Experimentation could easily deal with the ease of use, power level, stack size, and AoE. But then it is a matter of sticking the best effects into the trap and experimenting for the power. This system makes you trade effects for power, etc. And it will probably be easier to balance this way. With experimentation, you have to give the item decent stats at mid range while being careful to keep it from being too powerful at the high end. This system makes it easy to know what is possible with every combination.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Nice post. Great ideas in it, I like how you can customize traps.
But the quality of resources must come into play.
This it was allows differentiation between the "Good" and the "Bad" so to speak.
Ackis wrote:
Nice post. Great ideas in it, I like how you can customize traps.
But the quality of resources must come into play.
This it was allows differentiation between the "Good" and the "Bad" so to speak.
Master Ranger/Master RIfleman
Eclipse Server
Nemo0 wrote:
Ackis wrote:
Nice post. Great ideas in it, I like how you can customize traps.
But the quality of resources must come into play.
This it was allows differentiation between the "Good" and the "Bad" so to speak.
Why does something like this need resource qualities (i.e. experimentation)? The good could just be the people who know what they are doing (i.e. put together useful traps, like combining the dizzy and knockdown effect). The bad are the people making silly traps (like a 35m AoE lure). Worrying about resource qualities would make me tempted not to bother. If I make stuff, I do it with the resources at hand. If using crap resources means I get crap traps then I will probably never be using good traps. I would consider going out of my way to get different kinds of resources (like Endorian Wooly or Lokian Avian) but I can't be bothered to wait for a good shift. I am not a crafter and, honestly,I don't really want to be. It's too much like work. I'm not sure how other Rangers feel about it but having to care about the resources I use is a bit of a pain.