Ranger Archive

Thread: Need your constructive feedback

Owen-Lars
Tue May 17, 2005 11:36 am
#1

Hey guys, i would like you to submit your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on this idea please.


Its over in the Artisan forums but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not flame or degrade the community by just ranting and abusing the idea. Say why you like/dislike the idea and if you have some ideas on a better solution post them


This idea affects us a great deal which is obvious as soon as you read it. There needs to be a voice on the issue from those that are experts in personal concealment and agro avoidance so please go give constructive feedback.


Again please do not flame or insult, keep it clean and just express your thoughts on the matter.


Here be the link: Artisan Armour



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Marven_Darkfly
Tue May 17, 2005 11:48 am
#2


Kinda steps on our toes of the camo line.



posted a few comments in the post




Message Edited by Marven_Darkfly on 05-17-2005 11:53 AM



Marven Darkfly
Master Smuggler(again)

Taking Bulk Orders of Spice

smuggler say "W E D I G G S T H E T I G G S"


KaiRaene
Tue May 17, 2005 1:20 pm
#3

Done and done.



New home of SWG Rangers!

"Ranger isnt a profession. Its a lifestyle for sure. But upon the desert plains of Tattooine that wandering hermit you see was once a proud Ranger. It may not be a profession anymore but the lifestyle can never be lost, changed or deleted. "




Tarnak_Archvold
Tue May 17, 2005 2:32 pm
#4

Having read the idea, it sounds like a mask scent. Except for 3 alterations.
a) It works all the time, with no chance of failure.
b) It have a material cost to it, but from the sound of it would last much longer the camouflage.
c) It does not require then to then to invest in scout 1000 to get the ability.

No I did not post in thair topic, as my opinion that they ask for our skills for free will properly just cause friction.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
JBMat
Tue May 17, 2005 4:53 pm
#5

I was nice over there.


But this smacks of letting the prisoners guard themselves.


They (the Artisans) want to be able to protect themselves. They want to be able to make some kind of emitter that scares off animals but not NPCs. So they don't get eated when they go out to tend harvestors. They want to be able to make it, out of stuff they mine. Boy, talk about your cake and ice cream too.


A few solutions :


One: Maybe they shouldn't put harvestors in places they can get ate. I have not seen any monstorours beasties in a player city lately. I may be wrong, but I don' t think so.


Two: spend some SP and get some combat skills.


Three: HIre a bodyguard.


Good idea, too bad it's so incestuous. They get this, I want the animal attractor emitter so I can quit wandering around and looking for things to kill when the stats are good.


JB


Fodder650
Tue May 17, 2005 4:59 pm
#6

As a person with an artisan account and my ranger account. And as someone who completly hates what happened to artisan. I am against this. If you create this item you will get artisans who group with fighters to hold back Krayt's and stuff.

Bad idea



Canon Fodder - The former Ranger/CH now unplayed Smuggler
Down to one account and thats only because its a station pass
Currently a Droid Commander in City of Villians (really)
Huntseeker
Tue May 17, 2005 5:02 pm
#7

I admit i've replied and kinda ranted on it, but if that goes through, it makes me think that the dev's are wanting rid of ranger as a proffession.




Karimicu's Sukkarius Master Ranger\Bounty Hunter CAUSAL FIZZ PLAYER
VT-49 Decimator R.A.M.B.O {Ranger Armoured, Mobile Base of Operations} Y8-Minning ship RAMBO II {Ranger Armoured Mining Base of Operations}



THE INSANE IMPERIAL RANGER!

Fodder650
Tue May 17, 2005 5:30 pm
#8

First they wont let it go through because its to easily exploited. So this is a non-issue to begin with. Next we, as artisans, need to see if the minerals are better on the "adventure" planets. Because I havent heard one way or another on this yet. Even though the devs did say this was how it was going to work from then on. Now players like me who have cities on Dant won't be hurt since our harvester farms are already in city limits.

In EQ2 this is the way it works. The better materials are in the harder areas. And this is what I think they are trying to emulate. But the difference there is that you can twin your character to be a crafter/fighter without hurting either side. I have two accounts so my first thought was "Well then i will just place harvesters with Canon". But the more I thought about my guild mates who have single accounts and are dual fighter/artisan templates and realized how much it truly is bad for them. They are down on HitPoints because of their template. So they cant place harvesters because there combat template and HAM are to low to be effective. Fun little catch 22.

Part of the problem is what I said. EQ2 allows twinning easily without hurting your combat template. SWG sort of assumes that if your a crafter you have multiple accounts.



Canon Fodder - The former Ranger/CH now unplayed Smuggler
Down to one account and thats only because its a station pass
Currently a Droid Commander in City of Villians (really)
BioEngine
Tue May 17, 2005 6:19 pm
#9

You know, they still have enough skill points to master Ranger and a crafting profession.



They need to stop whining about it, since we apply to CL now.





Account active 'till November 10th, contact me on forum name:
Stamina
Fodder650
Tue May 17, 2005 7:17 pm
#10

Thats not the point really Bio. The 3k HAM comes from having all your points in a combat/scout/doctor trees. Go anything in artisan and you kill that.

And why would you do Ranger/Artisan? That would be someone who hates life really.



Canon Fodder - The former Ranger/CH now unplayed Smuggler
Down to one account and thats only because its a station pass
Currently a Droid Commander in City of Villians (really)
BioEngine
Tue May 17, 2005 7:30 pm
#11

They don't need 3K ham. Heck, I'm a double master and cap at 2900 (Twi Lek) and I manage to solo CL 70 stuff like cake with 2 different foods and a set of armor.



The Ranger / Artisan elite profession thing is so that they can hide / run from enemy creatures as they tend their harvesters. Ranger ability to Camo and Negotiate Terrain, Scout ability to mask their scent without resources needed, and the ability to throw traps at creatures that they can't get away from (P-Dart, anyone?)



This is why I made that suggestion. They don't need a double mastery to avoid the creatures that they would run into. Most of the minor creatures are CL 30 or less, and by "minor" I mean the ones that there are a lot of but aren't usually the ones that deathblow. If they can devote skill points to one, and one alone, elite crafting profession, then they should have enough skill points to master Scout at the very least. If they do not want to spend skill points to obtain abilities quite similar to ours, then they do not want them enough and therefore do not need them enough (or can't figure out what they need in the first place.)





Account active 'till November 10th, contact me on forum name:
Stamina
Owen-Lars
Tue May 17, 2005 7:53 pm
#12

Obviously i dont like the idea proposed and object it completely. From the corr boards someone mentioned instead of the jacket, camo be changes to be ranger made, usable by anyone which i also dont feel should be the sulution. I think the issue can be solves with CL rather than personal concealment and that personal concealment is clearly the domain of certain professions.


In regards to that i had this to sayin the vien of if the devs love the idea and we can do nothing to stop it i would rather it be like this proposal.







On the issue of Ranger-Made, Self-Applied camo kits.


I dont like the idea one bit. I can remember seeing a couple of sniper school documentories that focusedon the personal concealment art (in aswg senserangers are thepersonal concealment artists,riflemenare rifle users who shoot concealed shots). As the snipers progressed in the course they were introduced to making their own ghillie suit. This personal concealment suit was hand crafted, personally maintained and required great work and effort to first make and then use effectivelly in a combat situation. We as a community feel the same way about our camo.


Its not just a craftable and equipable/usable item. Its a reflection ofthe art of personal concealment that our profession is so heavily involved in. In the same way those snipers learn theirart, we learn ours as we gainschematics and weincrease our camo mods. In the same way they spend hours making their suits, we spend hours (and even days if you are planning on factory runs)hunting down the right critters,gathering the resources and creating our kits. When the snipers go out in the fieldthey are aware of how to move and basically how to be personally concealed. They dont just become invisible or very hard to see because of a suit, its using that suitin the right way and altering your movement to get the best out of the suit.In thisvienour camodoesnt simply mean we have a magical invis buff applied to us, it means that we alter our look (god knows why camo does not have avisual effect), alter our movements and use our camo knowledge (the mods) to remain unseen.


Thats the way i see camo and how i differentiatebetween mask scent and camo. Mask scent could be creature only, its hiding one's scents making you less of a target, camo is hiding yourself and should work against npcs, creatures and pcs.


So essentially, camo is seen as much more than just a buff applied to us. Because it's so heavily integrated into the profession and has so much potential its seen as an art, just as how the chef art is making delicious foods and a carbineer's art of weilding a carbine. I dont think making it a consumable would be a good way for the skill to devlope and think the other alternatives are a much better choice in regards to ranger.







Alternative Solution: Scent Masking Kits


As Paks was saying, if a personal concealment solution was definatly going to happen, i believe it should be a master scout crafted item. I also think it should be a variation of mask scent in terms of it's effects.It would come in the formof ascent masking kit.


First, a run down of what mask scent, camo, scent masking kits and stealthSHOULD do:


Mask Scent:


Mask Scent essentially makes a player less of a target to creatures. The skill is creature only and decreases the agro range of mobs byeither a percentage value or a hard number. It enables playersusing mask scent abilities to reduce the chances of a mob attacking the player up until a certain range. An example would be:Thortacis a master scout and is traveling around dantooine.Heisusingmask scent and thismeans that if farer than 20m from a creature there is a chance (thatdepends onmask scent mod) that the creature will not notice him and not attack/respond. As a master scout he has a high chance of avoiding agro from the mobs at ranges greater than 20m because of his high maskmod.When themask scent breaks the player is attacked and mustwait 30 seconds and until out of combat until they can re-apply the effect.


Camo Kits:


Camo is essentially visual stealth and a far superior version of personal concealment that can be applied to the ranger and the ranger's targets. The skill workson NPCs and Creatures, makes you imune to agro from 35m+and gives you a high chance (depending on the camo rating of the ranger) to avoid agro from creatures 0m-35m. Consumable planet specific camo kits are required and use resources from that planet. Theyare experimentable uponfor uses and duration up to a maximum of 30 mins. The camo 'buff' is applied, takes into account the kit rating and the camo mod level of the ranger. Once the kit has been applied the ranger or player cannot be agroed from over35m from a creature or npc andwithin 35m the ranger or playerhas a chance (depending on camo kitrating and surpassing the effectiveness of mask scent) to avoid agro from creatures and npcs.An example of its use would be: Thortac is a master ranger, he is hunting on dathomir with Lythender. He has made perfect rated camo kits with a duration of an hour. He appies a dath camo kit to himself and to Lythender and they go out hunting.Rancors and Nightsistersover a 35m radius from Thortac or Lythender do not attack at all, mobswithin the 35m radiusmake a check against thecamobuff and the rating it has (the rating of the kit used) to see ifit will break or not.Because of the quality of the kit and the high camo level of the ranger who applied the camo buff (Thortac) there is a low chance of it breaking. If the camo breaks then then Thortacwill have to wait 10 seconds before he can re-apply the kit.



Mask Scent:


Scouts would get their self applied and resource free mask scent skill as it's currently implemented.Scent MaskingKits would require resources to makearound the same asanadvanced planet camo kits but not be specific on itsresource requirement, for example40 hide and 40 meat. The kit would givemask scent effectsand be experimentable up to80% the effectiveness of the creator (in other words up to80% of the creators BASEmask scent mod). The kits would last15mins if unbroken, require 30 seconds to reaply if brokenand would come in5 use kits. These kits can be used by anyone.


Stealth:


Stealth is a high level ranger command based skill that allows rangers to remove themselves from the visual spectrum and from the radar. It doesnt require resources and is only self applied. The reason why stealth and camo are seperated is because rangers would not want to be invisible all the time like when in group or when needing protection on lower level planets with friends. Stealth is primarily a PvP based skill that allows movement and use of certain skills (pathfinding mode would increase out of combat normal run speedto burst run speedfor instance) and the opportunity forfirst strike capabilities. It can be used inconjunction with ambushwhich should be another skill open to rangers at master level. Basically stealth can be used at the same time as mask scent or camo or any other skill and removes the ranger from the visual world. The counters for this can be discussed later of course.



That essentially sums it up:



  • Scouts get Mask Scent which is creature only and hides you from mobs over20m.
  • Scent Masking Kitscan be used by anyone and give a 80% effective mask scent buff to the player and are crafted by Master Scouts.
  • Rangers get Camo which gives immunity from agro over 35m and increased chance of avoiding agro up to 0m. Camo be applied to others only by a ranger (up to 30 min duration).
  • Stealth is the rangers visual stealth ability and only self applied.


This sorts out the issues with camo/mask and also provides a viable personal concealment option to low level players. I still think that increasing the levelas you progress incraftingto a max of40 needs to be done but if that isnt enough then these changes could greatly help and still keep the risk element to crafters in the wilds.




THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Rolfie
Tue May 17, 2005 8:11 pm
#13

I like alot of people have more than one account.


My alt has zero, nada, zilch combat skills.


When I am concerned about getting one shot which isn't that often. I group with a CL80 toon my ranger for instance and go on my merry way.


The only planets I still have trouble are.....Wait for it......Dathomir and Endor big surprise there.


Now before I would get a Uber buff and eat synsteak when I surveyed on Dathomir. I never wore any armor didn't need it.


Right now those two planets are the only planets I have trouble surveying with my Alt. So problem is not as bad as the Non combat people keep making it. either that or I am one lucky SOB.


Now Dath and Endor I ahve been incapped and killed. But GEeeee alot of other combat professions when solo get one shot and incapped or killed.


It wasn't eaxctly uncommong Pre-CU for a Stalker or Spellweaver to one shot me off a swoop, and if I didn't recover fast enough she would kill me.


So this call for an invisibility suit is pure Bull****!


They need to try grouping up with a friend if they have any and quit living in the past. Its time to adapt.


On a weekly basis my Alt manages to service 5 factories and 20 harvestors. Yea sometime I have to callfor help from the guild I am in or Log in my ranger and deal with the problem. This suit ideal is unneeded.





Rolfie Master Ranger, Bantha Poo FTW

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