Ranger Archive

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Hey guys, i would like you to submit your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on this idea please.

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I feel for artisans, I really do. The device/vest sounds like a good idea until I mulled it over for a while

I'm not sure this device would do the trick. I say this because of past history of the devs andof my long time experience with using camo. Seems you get different results depending on where you are, servers, planets etc. I suspect the same will happen with this device. yes, negative, but I think a realist. They will then have the same problems that allwe rangers know only too well.

A much more simplier way andmuch easier to program and build. ... for example. Pure Artisan..lvl 1.Let them age and as a character gets older his combat level goes up. Unrelated to any weapons etc. So after one month of real time not game time, he is a lvl 20, 3 months lvl 50...or whatever schedule works.

This would give the pure crafter time to jump on a bike and get the hell out of town when he is attacked. He places his factory, extractors in places where there are nasty creatures he needs help from someone. These will be the minority.

Here's what I put there. Let me know if this sounds like a decent alternative to asking them not to do it altogether.

This is 1/3 of our profession, that you are attempting to add to your own. We have seen other professions be given what we have asked from the Devs for 2 years (we being Rangers, not myself and other Rangers. I've only been playing 4 months.) I would like to know how you plan on avoiding exploitation of this device.

People could take Master Artisan, and use it to get through the Geo caves and get to the mag seal containers within it. This is a minimal example of the situations that it could be used wrongfully in. I am wondering, why is it that our profession is so favorable that others have to imitate our abilities without taking the skill themselves? This is why you should limit its affects, if you are to pursue its implementation.

• This should not be a 100% accurate device, and it should have a cut-off point at CL 40-ish


• I suggest that it be an Armorsmith device, because of your references to PSG's andthe similarity between the two.

Now, if I had it my way, I would make this device into a type of structure that did not take up lots, instead of a clothing item at all. Similar to our camp kits, it would be created and placed, and would have a radial menu to select to disband it.

I agree that Artisans should have some more protection than a PSG, but I still feel like yet another profession is stepping on our toes by asking for a gimmie item that would push back our Revamp that much further.

"The Sonic Emitter emits a sonic vibration, unpleasent for most known wildlife of the galaxy."

as long as they put this bit in, I don't really mind :

"except for kreetles, somwhow these strange and annoying creatures are attracted to the sonic emitter son much that they swarm from miles around on the target"

I posted this in the Artisan forum. The answer seems simple enough to me, what am I missing.

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Owen, that's an impressive post! I really don't disagree with anything in it. I like that it's a master scout skill. Master scouts need more and having this there makes sense. Scouts are experts in the masking of scents. However, when they progress into rangerdom, they begin to train in the art of camo.

I also like Dianna's droid enhancements proposed over in the artisan forum. I think that these 2 skills could work quite nicely together. Artisans would have ways of avoiding and protecting themselves in combat without actually being a combat prof.

well done. If I were tiggs, I'd give you a big paw of approval... but I'm not.

Cryos Wrote:

"Scouts are experts in the masking of scents. However, when they progress into rangerdom, they begin to train in the art of camo"

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This is the point i was trying to make. Paks talked about putting a consumable cert (be it camo kits or mask kits or just another skill) and it realy made sense and a perfect opportunity to differentiate between mask and camo. The idea is that mask scent is the scout skill, scent masking kits are not as effective as the mask scent skill but can be used by anyone and then ultimatly you have camo which the ranger can use to apply to the group or to use on him/herself.

In a normal group situation with scouting you would use your own mask scent skill and either make scent masking kits of others, hand them out or rely onthe other teammembers having kits and using them. If you were a ranger you wouldnt use mask or use scent masking kits, you would use camo as it is much more powerfull and effective. You would apply it to yourself and to your group providing a powerfull survival buff.

On a personal note, in the ranger revamp i want some ranger skills that allow us to give buffs to ourselves and some to our group. These buffs could be in the form of anti agro (camo), out of combat movement speed (pathfinding) and combat buffs (through camps). Debuffs and crowd control through traps would be very interesting and realy bring out the survival nature to our profession. Advancing on that, stealth and tracking is an obvious structure to hold those survival skills and i fully expect these to be realised come revamp time. Anyway ill stop there before i write too much

Essentially:

• Scent Masking Kits for anyone


• Mask Scent skill for scouts


• Camofor rangers and can be applied to anyone by the ranger

Though I didn't generate the idea, and I understand the concerns of the ranger community, there is a legitmate need, in my opinion, for some sort of mechanic that increases survivability of non-combat templates (CL 1).

The vest proposal was just the most recent in a long string of ideas we've tossed up, on ways to deal with this need.

This isn't just a crafter issue, entertainers have it too. I don't honestly think it's fair to require us to get combat skills just to run a business. No-one is seriously suggesting that CL1 characters be able to run all over every planet with impunity.

One of the big selling points for SWG, to me, was the ability to actually have a non-combat playstyle. To be a full on business person, or musician, or whatever. As it stands, even the 'civilized' planets team with hostile creatures and criminals capable of killing a adult person in one or two blows. While it is possible to get by and play as a CL1 character, the changes brought about by the CU have really but the damper on it. The time consuming and tedious job of harvester maintenance has now the added 'fun' of vastly greater risk of death.

Some suggested solutions that, again in my opinon, won't work:
1) Bodyguard (droid or PC): A body guard might kill the mob, but there is no mechanism or ability for the guard to intercept the attacks directed to the non-combat toon. In other words, the guard can fling themselves in front of the non-com and 'take a bullet' for him/her. Additionally, being a bodyguard, while nice from the RP perspective, is dead boring. It is difficult to get and keep a bodyguard for lengthy survey runs or harvester runs.

2) Group with CL80 characters: A wierd quirk of the CL system makes it such that having a high CL makes you much more resistant to attacks than a low CL. Further, being in a group 'magically' gives you this level-based protections. While this helps, there are some flaws:
- RP-wise, it's silly. How can being in a group with a highly trained combat specialist, who is chillin in the cantina enjoying the floor show, protect (via CL boost) a non-combat person out in the field?
- With group size limits, many do not want to 'waste' a slot on a non-participating member
- Off-hours play is limited due to possible non-availability of groups to join
- The non-com still has the base 1000 health
- No good way to terminate combat in many cases. Distance, and killing the mob, are the only methods to really do this. Killing the mob isn't possible as the non-com has no combat skills.

3) Give non-coms a CL the same way that equivalently skilled combat characters have: This has the most merit of all of them I've seen, however it is dissatisfying in a number of ways:
- RP-wise, it is also silly. How does being a master dancer, Master Artisan, Master Shipwright conver combat levels?
- The non-com still has base 1000 health
- No armor certifications
- Combat termination issues cited in 2 above

Ideally, in Guru's perfect world, one would be able to 'go on leave' from the PvE game too, at least on starter planets. Nothing will agro you, at all. This 'on leave from PvE' can only be used if you are CL1. Get even one combat skill at all, poof, you are PvE enabled. Further, limit the state to the ground game only. Toggle to PvE enable when entering any dungeon or special content area (Krayt grave yard, for instance). The idea is to enable the non-combat playstyle without handing 'loot the cool stuff for free' powers out to everyone.

That's not going to happen, of course.

So, other ideas I have liked:

1) Modify/create bodyguard droids that have the 'take a bullet' feature as a module. They can intercept the very first attack from the mob to the non-com, then draw agro. Cert them to CL1 only, if needs be, to avoid exploitive behavior. Limit them to ground game, non-dungeon/POI.

2) Create a 'armor' for non-coms, I'd prefer a PSG-based technology that protects against kinetic as well as energy. Cert it to CL1, not in dungeons, blah blah blah, again, the goal is to give the non-com at least some hope of running away.

3) For NPC mobs: Implement a 'fast talk' or 'bribe' or 'negotiate' option so that a rich crafter or popular entertainer can get out of the fight without, well, a fight. Doesn't help creature mobs, though.

All I'm asking for is a way to enjoy the non-combat game again without enormous gyrations and painstaking work to deal with the CU changes.

On a related side note: Does anyone else find it wierd that mature, civilized, developed planets like Corellia and Naboo are absolutely lousy with agressive, highly dangerous, criminals and wildlife? Although the North American continent has vast areas of wilderness left, encoutering truely deadly wildlife is very rare. Running afoul of deadly criminals, while more common, is still rare. I can run a shop in Georgia without a bodyguard all the time, why not Naboo? Just sayin...

Guru

I know what you mean, and something definatly needs to be done. Kits that give a mask scent effect (once its beefed up a little) would work well i think that can be used by anyone and also giving crafters a CL. Obviously we have talked about this already but i do think its a viable solution. I think that the game world, even on naboo if you are outside cities should be dangerous but never instant kill and everyone no matter what the level should have some way to either get away or avoid the agro to a degree.

Obviously me and you are at opposites about the 'pve off' switch hehe as the scout profession and ranger profession are primarily about avoid agro and surviving hostile situations That being said i think if scent masking kits were to be added then it could benefit both our professions and ultimatly the cl1 playstyle. I dont think that cl1s should be able to just run up to level 18 agros and go toe to toe but i do think that if crafters were cl 40 they could withstand a few hits and if they didnt want agro they would have high chance of avoiding agro from 20+ out.

Bascially i think everyone here apreciates the situation you are in.