Ranger Archive
Thread: Rangers should get a rifle cert
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Almagill
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:59 pm
#1
Nemo0 wrote:Just to make sure everyone realizes this:CMs need to take Marksman skills for their profession. Doctors, who don't have marksman or brawler skills, do not get normal weapons. CHs, which are considered a combat class but don't have marksman or brawler skills, do not get a normal weapon. I have a feeling that the Devs do not want to give normal weapon certs to any profession that does not stem off of marksman or brawler.
No problem.
In that case give Rangers, at Novice Ranger, a certification for a Hunting Rifle and a Hunting Knife.
The effectiveness of the weapon scales all the way up from novice marks / brawler up to Master level. After that point the Ranger will be training in either a ranged or melee profession and will pick up more effective weapons/skills in those profs.
The ranger cert'd weapon should give a modifier against creatures to give us that 'edge'. It need be no more effective against players/NPC's than whichever weapons/skills you would have below master marks/brawler.
Oh hang on, that doesn't work either. You don't need to master the whole marks/brawler prof to be an elite... that's a special torment reserved just for US.
frell
ok, gonna go rethink this... I feel it's nearly an idea, but it just falls short
WildBil2Me
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:41 pm
#2
ComCypher wrote:
Discuss.
What about a few traps that did damage along with states? Kind of like grenadesbut less damage and some states to make up for it.
frightwig
Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:15 pm
#3
Almagill wrote:
Oh hang on, that doesn't work either. You don't need to master the whole marks/brawler prof to be an elite... that's a special torment reserved just for US.
frell
ok, gonna go rethink this... I feel it's nearly an idea, but it just falls short
No, what you're saying makes sense.. I see your point about the novice marksman/brawler box determining which ranger weapon you could use (ranged or melee respectively). The problem being, in theory, that you could use the ranger weapon by only taking that novice box.
What if it was based off having an elite combat profession in those professions?
- In other words:
- master rifles, pistols, etc belonging to the marksman branch > granting the "Ranged Ranger Weapon" certification
- master pikeman, swords, TKM, etc belonging to the brawler branch > granting a "Melee Ranger Weapon"
The point being, you have to master an elite combat profession from either the brawler/melee profession or the marksman/ranged profession to have certification for a ranger weapon. (you only get one, obviously, but if you drop ranged for melee in the future, you can then use the melee weapon as a ranger).
This way, a ranger weapon certification would match a rangers elite combat profession and playstyle -- either ranged or melee.
(edit: oops, had to edit that last quote.. I said "both ranged and melee", but meant either type, depending on your combat profession, but not being certed for both)
Message Edited by frightwig on 04-03-2005 12:20 AM
Nemo0
Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:59 pm
#4
frightwig wrote:
Almagill wrote:
Oh hang on, that doesn't work either. You don't need to master the whole marks/brawler prof to be an elite... that's a special torment reserved just for US.
frell
ok, gonna go rethink this... I feel it's nearly an idea, but it just falls short
No, what you're saying makes sense.. I see your point about the novice marksman/brawler box determining which ranger weapon you could use (ranged or melee respectively). The problem being, in theory, that you could use the ranger weapon by only taking that novice box.
What if it was based off having an elite combat profession in those professions?
In other words:
- master rifles, pistols, etc belonging to the marksman branch > granting the "Ranged Ranger Weapon" certification
- master pikeman, swords, TKM, etc belonging to the brawler branch > granting a "Melee Ranger Weapon"
The point being, you have to master an elite combat profession from either the brawler/melee profession or the marksman/ranged profession to have certification for a ranger weapon. (you only get one, obviously, but if you drop ranged for melee in the future, you can then use the melee weapon as a ranger).
This way, a ranger weapon certification would match a rangers elite combat profession and playstyle -- both ranged and melee.
I think that part of the reason for giving Rangers a weapon is to avoid the need to pick up any marksman or brawler skills. This method would defeat that purpose. It would allow for a weapon specialized for Ranger purposes, though.
frightwig
Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:44 pm
#5
Nemo0 wrote:
I think that part of the reason for giving Rangers a weapon is to avoid the need to pick up any marksman or brawler skills. This method would defeat that purpose. It would allow for a weapon specialized for Ranger purposes, though.
That's a good point.. But at the same time, if we didn't have to take up an elite profession, what type of weapon (trap launcher related discussion, aside) would go with ranger? Would one or two weapons satisfy everyone? Would it be powerful enough for us to not need to pick up any marksman/brawler skill? I know I'd still want to play a rifleman/ranger, regardless of what ranger weapon would be given. My suggestion was that it would be a powerful and unique weapon, but still allow all rangers to pick the elite weapon class of their choice - basically as a way to enhance it, but with "ranger" function (whatever that might entail), either melee or ranged depending on your profession.
The Bow/arrow discussions in the past leave out rangers who want to play melee. The hunting knife isn't appealing to ranged fighters. Sure, we could have both maybe. But like you said, all other professions that have unique weapons (commando, BH, and now Combat medic) have prerequisites in the brawler and marksman fields.
My suggestion was hypothetical, in the sense that if we were required to have some basis in marksman/brawler to obtain a ranger weapon, it wouldn't be tied to some specific line of a certain weapon that some of us might not agree on. (Marksman rifle line, for instance, so we could use a Hunting Bow or rifle; The brawler swords line, so we could be certed for a hunting knife).
Just a suggestion though. I don't know.. I'm going to use Almagill's quote to describe my idea:
"I feel it's nearly an idea, but it just falls short"
CuchulainnDarklight
Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:54 pm
#6
Im working on an idea better than my usual inebriated ramblings in this area. Ill post it within the week. And ill try not to step on the toes of such luminaries as Phenix, Owen lars, and anyone else thinks they are cleverer than me!
"Chewie, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive!"
CuchulainnDarklight
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:11 am
#9
Been over this loads of times - best option is 1 unique ranged weapon (bow/crossbow) and 1 melee weapon (hunters knife).
But of course Rangers arent combat classes so why would we need any weapons, sigh.
DaveG
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:21 am
#10
Personally, I'm not sure, but there are acouple of relavent precidents worth pointing out:
- Wookiees get Bowcaster certification (but without marksman skills I'm not sure how effective a newbie wookiee would be weilding his/her bowcaster).
- In thecombat revamp combat medics are getting certified for an 'exclusive' pistol.
ComCypher
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:32 am
#11
DaveG wrote:
Personally, I'm not sure, but there are acouple of relavent precidents worth pointing out:
- Wookiees get Bowcaster certification (but without marksman skills I'm not sure how effective a newbie wookiee would be weilding his/her bowcaster).
- In thecombat revamp combat medics are getting certified for an 'exclusive' pistol.
That was exactly the thing that got me thinking about rangers getting a weapon. The most appropriate thing that came to mind was rifles. I suppose a knife cert would be appropriate too for melee rangers.
People argue that these are supposed to be support professions instead of combat professions, but I think clearly with the CU the devs are hoping to make the professions a little more self-sufficient. If the support professions do get unique weapon certs, what's the big deal? It certainly doesn't take away from anything.
Nemo0
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:32 am
#12
Some notes:
- We no longer have to worry so much about a weapon for all types of Rangers. Weapon specials are not quite so specific anymore.
- No one currently has a standard weapon cert from a profession that does not spawn off of marksman or brawler (CDEFs are not from a profession and traps are not standard weapons).
- Weapon mods are no longer necessarily weapon specific (i.e. a +10 ranged accuracy or +10 melee speed is possible).
- Specials are no longer weapon specific.
- NDAs suck (this is from what had to be held back in the past, not because I know anything about the future).
Nemo0
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:35 am
#13
Just to make sure everyone realizes this:
CMs need to take Marksman skills for their profession. Doctors, who don't have marksman or brawler skills, do not get normal weapons. CHs, which are considered a combat class but don't have marksman or brawler skills, do not get a normal weapon. I have a feeling that the Devs do not want to give normal weapon certs to any profession that does not stem off of marksman or brawler.
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