Ranger Archive

Well, I decided I would make a post describing a ranger skill set that I would be happy with. The idea here is to give us something for our skill points, keeping dablers from becoming overpowered, and keeping the implementation reasonably simple. Mainly, I want to get discussion off of why we don't work and onto what will make us work (again). Also, it would be worth putting many of our favorite ideas together into one skill tree so that we can talk about balancing the whole tree vs. balancing a skill. This post borrows heavily from many of the ideas from the forum. It also contains some potential ideas for Space Expansion related skills. Some of the names will need work but they are there to give an idea of what they could be called. The overall tree still needs a LOT of work, I'm just trying to get some ideas started. The modular camp idea is a bit too complex to include everything in here. Please look at the Outdoorsman Proposal for the specific info on that (I won't be covering anything other than the camp level certs for that as the rest gets very complex very quickly). For more info on stealth, try looking at Fred's "STEALTH - The post you have all been waiting for (or dreading) ...". For more info on the traps, try my "Making a Trap Master a Master of Traps". I'll add links in a subsequent post because I don't want to mess with the formatting of this one anymore.

The modular camps and modular traps follow a similar idea. I get the impression that modular camps might make it in with the Squad Leader Revamp. That would make modular traps possible as a correspondent issue. Stealth shouldn't be too much harder to implement (they already have the disappearing player bug and the rest of the code is similar to pet/vehicle calling rules).

First, a description of how I think the skill trees can be broken up:

• Wayfaring:
  Someone taking wayfaring wants to be quick and stealthy. They want to be able to move around in the wilderness without any distractions.


• Frontiering:
  Someone taking frontiering should be able to survive without ever needing to return to town. They should be able to survive in the wilderness without any trouble. They should also be able to help others survive in the wilderness.


• Tracking:
  This tree is about finding targets and knowing things about them. A tracker should be able to find his prey with minimal trouble.


• Trapping:
  Trappers can control any combat situation. The trapper takes combat on his own terms, forcing his enemies into unfavorable states. They are feared for their ability to render their opponents defenseless, even if they can't directly harm them.

Now for how I would distribute the skills:

• Scout: All traps can be used on any target. Player targets and NPC targets have a much lower chance of being hit.
  
  


• Master Scout: I would add a +10 Ranger Trap Use skill here (enough for a trap A?)
  
  


• Novice Ranger:
  Skill: /conceal
  Skill: Recognition 1 (counters hiding and sneaking at an improved level, also given to combat masters and mid level squad leaders, default level is 5% chance of detection, this improves it to 10%, /areatracking for players forces a check if the player is within 100m)
  Skill: /areatrack
  Skill: areatrack: animals
  
  Schem: Corellian Camo
  Schem: Nabooian Camo
  Schem: Tatooinian Camo
  Schem: Advanced Camp Kit
  Schem: Ranger Trap A
  Schem: Dizzy Trap Effect
  Schem: Stun Trap Effect
  Schem: Blind Trap Effect
  
  + 5 Camping
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  + 5 Creature Knowledge
  + 5 Foraging
  + 5 Terrain Negotiation
  +50 Camouflage (at least equal in power to mask scent, NPCs affected as well, should be completely undetectable by anything with CL under skill/2)
  +25 Tracking (affects /areatrack range [x10 in meters], affects /track skill success rate)
  +10 Ranger Trap Use
  
  


• Wayfaring I:
  Schem: Rori Camo
  Schem: Talus Camo
  
  +10 Camouflage
  +10 Terrain Negotiation
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Wayfaring II:
  Skill: \combatconceal: Uses a camo kit to apply a defensive bonus to a player (maybe camo skill / 10 to melee and ranged defense?)
  
  Schem: Dantooine Camo
  Schem: Yavin IV Camo
  
  +10 Camouflage
  +10 Terrain Negotiation
  +10 Poison Resist
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Wayfaring III:
  Schem: Endor Camo
  Schem: Lok Camo
  
  +10 Camouflage
  +10 Terrain Negotiation
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Wayfaring IV:
  Skill: \hide: This skill freezes the player in place and removes them from player (and creature/NPC) sight. It takes 10 seconds before the skill starts working and any attack in that time will end the hide attempt. No attacking or healing (etc) allowed. Can only be used out of combat (with a 30-60 second delay after combat ended). After leaving the hidden state, no attack commands can be given for 10 seconds (autoattack will respond if they are attacked, though). Ghillie suit needed (losing 1 condition per hide attempt?)?
  
  Schem: Dathomir Camo
  
  +10 Camouflage
  +10 Terrain Negotiation
  +10 Poison Resist
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Frontiering I:
  Schem: Ranger Trap B
  Schem: Ranger Ground Trap A
  
  +10 Camping
  +10 Foraging
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Frontiering II:
  Schem: Ranger Ground Trap B
  Schem: High Quality Camp Kit
  
  +10 Camping
  +10 Foraging
  +10 Disease Resist
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Frontiering III:
  Skill: Recognition II (also given to Master Squad Leaders, 20% detection chance)
  
  Schem: Ranger Trap C
  Schem: Ranger Ground Trap C
  
  +10 Camping
  +10 Foraging
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Frontiering IV:
  Schem: Ranger Trap D
  Schem: Field Base Kit
  
  +10 Camping
  +10 Foraging
  +10 Disease Resist
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Tracking I:
  Skill: areatrack: direction
  
  +10 Tracking
  + 5 Creature Knowledge
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Tracking II:
  Skill: Harvest 2: You can harvest 2 different resources off of a creature
  Skill: areatrack: people
  
  +10 Tracking
  +10 Creature Knowledge
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  +10 Poison Toughness
  
  


• Tracking III:
  Skill: areatrack: distance
  Skill: /track
  
  +5 Tracking
  +10 Creature Knowledge
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  +15 Creature to Hit (but make it melee and ranged and apply to specials)
  
  


• Tracking IV:
  Skill: areatrack: players
  
  +25 Tracking
  +10 Creature Knowledge
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  +15 Creature to Hit
  +10 Poison Toughness
  
  


• Trapping I:
  Skill: /rescue
  
  Schem: Trap Power Enhancer(makes the trap more likely to affect larger creatures)
  Schem: Snare Trap Effect
  
  +10 Trapping
  +15 Rescue
  +10 Ranger Trap Use
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Trapping II:
  Schem: Lure Trap Effect (i.e. single pull)
  Schem: Melee Defense Down Trap Effect (Wire Mesh)
  Schem: Area Effect Trap Enhancer (add an AoE effect to the trap)
  
  Cert: Trap Launcher (increase trap range to 64m, no need to stop moving to use a trap, increased speed)
  
  +10 Trapping
  +15 Rescue
  +10 Ranger Trap Use
  +10 Disease Toughness
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Trapping III:
  Schem: Extra Trap Uses Enhancer (bigger stack size)
  Schem: Ranged Defense Down Trap Effect (Glow Juice)
  Schem: Root Trap Effect (adhesive mesh effect)
  
  +10 Trapping
  +15 Rescue
  +15 Ranger Trap Use
  + 5 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Trapping IV:
  Schem: Knockdown Trap Effect
  Schem: Sleeping Gas Trap Effect (forces the target to peace. Will resume attacking if attacked)
  
  +10 Trapping
  +15 Rescue
  +20 Ranger Trap Use
  +10 Disease Toughness
  +10 Creature Harvesting
  
  


• Master Ranger:
  Skill: Recognition III (35% detection chance)
  Skill: Harvest 3: You can harvest all the different resources off of a creature
  Skill: /concealself: At Master Ranger, let conceal be resource free for yourself. Kits are only needed to conceal others. Maybe need to be wearing a ghillie suit (maybe reduce the suits condition by 1 each use? a 1k condition suit would give 1000 uses although then the death penalty gets annoying for it)?
  Skill: /sneak: Similar to hide except that movement is still allowed. Mounting a vehicle or pet is not allowed. A first strike attack can be initiated but the Ranger's attack speed is halved for the first 10 seconds of the fight. Ghillie suit needed (with condition loss)?
  
  Schem: Ranger Trap E
  Schem: Ranger Ground Trap D
  Schem: Armor Rating reduction Trap Effect (drop a creature from light to none, medium to light, heavy to medium, NOT cumulative, shows the weaknesses in the target's armor)
  Schem: High Tech Field Base Kit
  
  Cert: Mandalorian Armor
  
  +10 Camouflage (total +100)
  +10 Terrain Negotiation (total +100 instead of the current +95 I seem to remember)
  +25 Tracking (total +100)
  +10 Creature Knowledge (total +100)
  +30 Creature Harvesting (total +200)
  +20 Creature to Hit (total from ranger +50)
  + 5 Camping (total +100)
  + 5 Foraging (total +100)
  +10 Trapping (total +100)
  +15 Rescue (total +75)
  +25 Ranger Trap Use (total +100)
  +10 Ranged Defense (total +10)
  +10 Melee Defense (total +10)
  +10 Poison Resist (total +30)
  +10 Disease Resist (total +30)
  +10 Poison Toughness (total +30)
  +10 Poison Toughness (total +30)

I hope I covered most of the issues here. I'm sure I've forgotten plenty of stuff, though. If anything, this skill tree is becoming a bit overpowered to me. Any thoughts on this?

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Message Edited by Nemo0 on 04-30-2004 05:54 PM

Fred's "STEALTH - The post you have all been waiting for (or dreading) ..."

My "Making a Trap Master a Master of Traps"

I like your post very constructive. I would of liked to see some of the stuff from the link below in there. But i must admit I'm a little biased because it was my idea.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=46171

/cheer nemo0

i really dig this, its about time we got a bunch of our ideas together in a single thread.. err.. again... everything is right on the money...

i noticed you didn't go into any detail on a /rescue change... /rescue is one of my favorite things about rangers, and in its current form things like /taunt and and any knock-down move work better... i had proposed something similar to /feigndeath in another thread, something that might require a crafted item like a flare each time we use it... /feigndeath ends combat from the creature's perspective, but you remain in combat with itand when you stand you will be attacked again (prevents /feign from being a forced /peace on the creature)... this was the most i had hoped for, but it seems your sleeping gas trap would accomplish this even better... what do you have in mind for /rescue?

also, perhaps a craftable item that conferred a disease/poison resistance/toughness to another player for a short time could be implemented... kind of like the defense foods, but in the form of a "snake-bite kit"...might up the "groupability" of a ranger...

really good ideas, and i'm glad you got this threadgoing...

oh, wolfwoodscross had a nifty radar idea - increasing perceptability as you gain ranks in scout/ranger... might betoo latein the game tofactor it into this, but it wouldn't hurt tobring it up...

---

Ogo wrote:
You are a glutton for punishment, eh?

I'll bite.

I wouldn't mind seeing a +2000 harvesting bonus at Master for a month or two. Then they can hotfix it out. That's to make up for lost time.

To go with your trap ideas how about a "confusion" trap - a sort of super crowd-control trap. It'd make creatures act randomly and possibly attack one another in combat. Could have one version early in the tree to affect single creatures and an area version at the top end for groups.

Another idea - Sleeping Gas Trap Effect should not only force peace but also force them to sit/lay down. This might work well with lure-type traps and would be another way to control when and where kills are made.

Actually, most traps should come in two versions - single target and area affect. The more choices you have, the more versatile the profession. Some situations you might not want to do area affects.

---

Ooh, I think I like the idea of a confusion trap. And the sitting/lying down idea seems reasonable enough. As for the multiple trap types, that's the whole idea with the trapping system. Have a look in the trapping thread linked above for more info. The effects in the trapping tree are ONLY effects. They have to be put into the shells in the Frontiering tree before they can be used. It's more of a modular system allowing a bit of customization for Rangers.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Ah, I completely forgot about critical hits and such. Where would people think this skill should go? The tracking tree? Maybe tone down some of the Creature to Hit and add Creature Critical Hit Chance? One hit kills might be a bit much, though. And a lot more complicated to implement and balance.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

I like what is presented here, very nice. It does seem just a tad overpowered, at least the trapping line. But I do like it.

I like that it is spread out to keep the wannabe's away.

I will write out the skill tree on paper so I can look at it better, I'm just took a quick look. Have to fix some airplanes.

---

Kiryoku wrote:

/cheer nemo0

i really dig this, its about time we got a bunch of our ideas together in a single thread.. err.. again... everything is right on the money...

i noticed you didn't go into any detail on a /rescue change... /rescue is one of my favorite things about rangers, and in its current form things like /taunt and and any knock-down move work better... i had proposed something similar to /feigndeath in another thread, something that might require a crafted item like a flare each time we use it... /feigndeath ends combat from the creature's perspective, but you remain in combat with itand when you stand you will be attacked again (prevents /feign from being a forced /peace on the creature)... this was the most i had hoped for, but it seems your sleeping gas trap would accomplish this even better... what do you have in mind for /rescue?

also, perhaps a craftable item that conferred a disease/poison resistance/toughness to another player for a short time could be implemented... kind of like the defense foods, but in the form of a "snake-bite kit"...might up the "groupability" of a ranger...

really good ideas, and i'm glad you got this threadgoing...

oh, wolfwoodscross had a nifty radar idea - increasing perceptability as you gain ranks in scout/ranger... might betoo latein the game tofactor it into this, but it wouldn't hurt tobring it up...

---

I was going to post this in your trapping thread, but decided it might be best to keep a singular discussion going here. In any case . . .

In regards to the module traps and their power/effectiveness - why can both not be a result of your subesquent trapping skill? A standard modifier based on your + skill in Trapping that acts not only as a to-hit, but also perhaps for duration and debuff modifiers (when applicable).

I.E. - Player A is a Master Ranger (100 Trapping). Any trap he tosses out will have an 80% chance of sticking, last for 30 seconds (in the case of status effects), and/or have a debuff value of 50 (melee/ranged def).

Player B is a Master Scout (50 Trapping). Same exact trap will have a 40% chance of sticking, last for 15 seconds, and/or have a debuff value of 25.

Maybe I'm over simplifying (and of course the numbers are random for the sake of demonstration), but it seems that this is a simple thing to code in. The trap would have an equation attatched to it to add multiplier based on the user's skill in trapping. In essense, a Novice Scout could still use a Master Ranger trap this way, but would only be 10% as effective in regards to chance of it sticking, duration, and values that it works. Yes, that means lwoer level scouts arent that great at Trapping, but I think one of the main issues/concerns is that you should *want* to go all the way to Master for this - it's a big investment in skill points, the returns should be much improved.