Ranger Archive
Thread: A Potential Ranger Updated Skill Tree (to get people's mind onto more useful topics)
Kiryoku wrote:
Nemo0 wrote:
As far as I can tell,[/rescue] causes the creatures attacking your targetto switch agro to you. It fails most of the time (when the skill check succeeds)because a player close by continues to attack it and switches the agro back.
you've got it, this exactly how /rescue works... the main trouble is it is no different than the novice brawler skill /taunt (which coincidentally works more frequently), but with a different animation... all i'm asking is for /rescue to be a different and hopefully better ability... i think rangers should be able to /rescue someone from a critter, without immediately getting killed by it themselves - this means that /rescue would work initially like /taunt but with some added bonus... i've always been a fan of /rescue = /taunt; /throwflare; /feigndeath (where the feigning only works on critters)... similar to alan grant waving a flare in front of the t-rex, throwing it, and then standing really still - /rescuing the kiddies in the toppled ford (jurassic park)... i know i've said all this before, sorry for the repeat...
i agree with the logic of the disease/poison resist kits... i see them as innoculations that doctors should provide (even said that in my original proposal for them)... but.. there is a lot of things anti-logical about abilities in certain professions, and i think if they give us disease resistance coupled with group benefits then we should have something to combine to two...
as for the radar idea... yeh, it really is too late for that one... but it's a great idea!... i just can't let it die just because i think there's no way it'll get done...
i know you said you weren't going to go into the modular camp proposal, but i would like to see your take on it... even if it is the same thing as what is in the outdoorsman proposal, i don't think it'd hurt to publish it here again - if you don't mind doing it... we could get it all in this one big thread...
For rescue, I understand what you are saying. I'm just not sure exactly how to implement that. Maybe make it something that combines taunt with center of being? That way you have a better chance of surviving. And still add a delay before the creature can switch targets. Then just make the delay sort of like the posture change delay. A creature can't be affected by rescue more than once in 30 seconds. Would you consider this a skill worth using?
The problem with giving Rangers some sort of group based poison/disease tool is that Doctors already have that. I'd rather focus on new ideas than copying skills from other professions. And I want to try and keep the skills simple enough that each individual skill could be done in a minipublish (assuming that modular crafting would be implemented with the SL revamp...). I really would like something like trophy harvesting but it would take quite a few art resources to get it right (although I keep seeing lots of trophies in the static buildings so maybe we should include it).
As for the modular camp stuff, I'll probably get around to it at some point. It's mainly a matter of finding some spare time (I made the time to get this up because I thought the community really needed something other than Dev timing to talk about). Maybe call it the modular crafting system and explain both the camp stuff and the trap stuff at the same time. Most of that stuff is similar to what is already in the other descriptions but a few changes and updates really are needed (like a mobile ship launch point for the SE and the ability to land anywhere so that I never need to enter a city again).
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Kiryoku wrote:
Nemo0 wrote:
As far as I can tell,[/rescue] causes the creatures attacking your targetto switch agro to you. It fails most of the time (when the skill check succeeds)because a player close by continues to attack it and switches the agro back.
you've got it, this exactly how /rescue works... the main trouble is it is no different than the novice brawler skill /taunt (which coincidentally works more frequently), but with a different animation... all i'm asking is for /rescue to be a different and hopefully better ability... i think rangers should be able to /rescue someone from a critter, without immediately getting killed by it themselves - this means that /rescue would work initially like /taunt but with some added bonus... i've always been a fan of /rescue = /taunt; /throwflare; /feigndeath (where the feigning only works on critters)... similar to alan grant waving a flare in front of the t-rex, throwing it, and then standing really still - /rescuing the kiddies in the toppled ford (jurassic park)... i know i've said all this before, sorry for the repeat.
Imo /rescue should automatically stop the person from attacking and then reattacking the critter for a certain period of time. To stop people abusing this (i.e. kill stealing) it should work on the same consent system as doctors and medics.
Great thread btw Nemo
I love the ideas presented, but I do have a few questions that I have not seen an answer for.
I like the idea of modular traps and believe that it would do wonders for our proffesion but I can see a few problems with acouple of the new trap ideas when they are put into a PVP situation. The confusion trap currently has no resists or status cure available for it. Can you imagine the screaming when Rangers begin throwing confusion traps at hordes of flamethrower wielding commandos?And how would the sleeping gas traps work on players?
The stealth tree is something that I have wanted since I began playing the game, and I like the way you propose it be implimented. But thehide ability seems to be more of a speed bump than an actually useful skill. I would like an example of when and how you would use it.
Then I am all for a guillie suit that decays with each use. This would be a bonus for the tailor community as well as us. My question is, would you be able to wear armor under it? Personally I would say no. Currently there is no clothing item, that I know of, that allows you to wear armor under it. Plus this wouldallow youmake a potentialy powerful first strike attackbut itwill leave you virtualy defenseless. I think this would help balance its effectiveness. Maybe add a timer to how long you must wait before changing into armor?
These are just a few questions that The Devs might want answered.
Perhaps a scaled down version of the modular trapping. Say 1-5 mods per trap, and the ability to use based upon trapping skill instead of a straight up cert. (Trying to think of coding ways around what is apparently something difficult to do). This way your ability to utilize trapping is truly based upon your trapping ability (circular logic anyone?). Take the previous example, and on onto it the fact that you cannot use a 5 mod trap without 100 trapping - period. Every 25 points of trapping = 1 Mod, so if Master Scout has 50 trapping, they get 3 mods, and master ranger gets 5. at 0,25,50, etc) Or do it every 20 pts so scout still gets 3, but Ranger gets double that for 6 total.
Again, I'm trying to spark ideas that a dev might look at and go "That wouldnt be too hard". I honestly like a straight up cert idea, but the more I see how people have responded, the more I think the devs are gonna go "That's gonna take alot of work, we'll do it later" (look at how long DE and Carbineer took to get some love).
G0llum wrote:
I love the ideas presented, but I do have a few questions that I have not seen an answer for.
I like the idea of modular traps and believe that it would do wonders for our proffesion but I can see a few problems with acouple of the new trap ideas when they are put into a PVP situation. The confusion trap currently has no resists or status cure available for it. Can you imagine the screaming when Rangers begin throwing confusion traps at hordes of flamethrower wielding commandos?And how would the sleeping gas traps work on players?
The stealth tree is something that I have wanted since I began playing the game, and I like the way you propose it be implimented. But thehide ability seems to be more of a speed bump than an actually useful skill. I would like an example of when and how you would use it.
Then I am all for a guillie suit that decays with each use. This would be a bonus for the tailor community as well as us. My question is, would you be able to wear armor under it? Personally I would say no. Currently there is no clothing item, that I know of, that allows you to wear armor under it. Plus this wouldallow youmake a potentialy powerful first strike attackbut itwill leave you virtualy defenseless. I think this would help balance its effectiveness. Maybe add a timer to how long you must wait before changing into armor?
These are just a few questions that The Devs might want answered.
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
KeldensArms wrote:
Perhaps a scaled down version of the modular trapping. Say 1-5 mods per trap, and the ability to use based upon trapping skill instead of a straight up cert. (Trying to think of coding ways around what is apparently something difficult to do). This way your ability to utilize trapping is truly based upon your trapping ability (circular logic anyone?). Take the previous example, and on onto it the fact that you cannot use a 5 mod trap without 100 trapping - period. Every 25 points of trapping = 1 Mod, so if Master Scout has 50 trapping, they get 3 mods, and master ranger gets 5. at 0,25,50, etc) Or do it every 20 pts so scout still gets 3, but Ranger gets double that for 6 total.
Again, I'm trying to spark ideas that a dev might look at and go "That wouldnt be too hard". I honestly like a straight up cert idea, but the more I see how people have responded, the more I think the devs are gonna go "That's gonna take alot of work, we'll do it later" (look at how long DE and Carbineer took to get some love).
In the original post, I liked the idea of certs. With the same thinking as you have here, I changed things a bit above without really mentioning it (I will probably make an updated version of the trapping idea when I get time, possibly also throwing together something for camping). If you look above, there are now "Ranger Trap Use" skill mods in the trapping tree. This allows for a more fluid system and makes it quite similar to what you see with stims and such now. Balancing something like this with the ability to experiment might be difficult (part of the reason I'm not a big fan of putting experimentation into the system) but I'm beginning to think that experimentation will need to be in there and this adds a bit of flavor to it. Out of curiosity, what do others think about experimenting in the trap system (and possibly the camp system)? Is it something where most people would prefer the planning to only be based on the items you use or do people want the resource qualities themselves to matter? I personally hate worrying about resource qualities but a lot of people seem to like experimentation. To me, the complexity of the modular systems should be enough without having to worry about experimenting. But adding experimentation wouldn't be too hard.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Just another possible problem with traps. Now that the droids will allow you to launch traps at no combat cost, would this be a problem in PVP as well? The traps we have proposed could make Rangers agreat crowd control class. With these AOE debuffing traps I don't think it would be fair for Rangers and scouts to get to throw these at no cost. Although as long as the droid is attackable I don't see many players wanting to risk pulling a droid with the current droid armor ratings.
I guess I answered my own question.
Nemo0 wrote:
As far as I can tell,[/rescue] causes the creatures attacking your targetto switch agro to you. It fails most of the time (when the skill check succeeds)because a player close by continues to attack it and switches the agro back.
you've got it, this exactly how /rescue works... the main trouble is it is no different than the novice brawler skill /taunt (which coincidentally works more frequently), but with a different animation... all i'm asking is for /rescue to be a different and hopefully better ability... i think rangers should be able to /rescue someone from a critter, without immediately getting killed by it themselves - this means that /rescue would work initially like /taunt but with some added bonus... i've always been a fan of /rescue = /taunt; /throwflare; /feigndeath (where the feigning only works on critters)... similar to alan grant waving a flare in front of the t-rex, throwing it, and then standing really still - /rescuing the kiddies in the toppled ford (jurassic park)... i know i've said all this before, sorry for the repeat...
i agree with the logic of the disease/poison resist kits... i see them as innoculations that doctors should provide (even said that in my original proposal for them)... but.. there is a lot of things anti-logical about abilities in certain professions, and i think if they give us disease resistance coupled with group benefits then we should have something to combine to two...
as for the radar idea... yeh, it really is too late for that one... but it's a great idea!... i just can't let it die just because i think there's no way it'll get done...
i know you said you weren't going to go into the modular camp proposal, but i would like to see your take on it... even if it is the same thing as what is in the outdoorsman proposal, i don't think it'd hurt to publish it here again - if you don't mind doing it... we could get it all in this one big thread...
KeldensArms wrote:
Personally, I think experimentation would be fine, but if we're talking about needing to experiment to such a large degree - we're talking having to experiment each mod, then the final product. Lots of combines, lots of chances to fail, lots of factory times (much like meds I suppose), and potentially tons of various resources needed to even get started.
If it were treated as meds are currently, you could have where each mod would require 2 types of resources, it could be set up where the "basic" mods would have easily attainable items (organic + inorganic) which increase in specificity as you climb the ladder (next hides + metal. Then carnivore meat + fibreplast, etc). To be honest, it seems this should happen anyways, as the more powerful mods/traps should be a bit harder to get/craft regardless.
The top paragraph is very similar to the reasons I have for not wanting to bother with experimentation. To me, getting Endorian Wooly Hide, Dathomir Carnivore Meat, Lokian Leathery Hide (no, not Domesticated Meat again
), Yavinian Animal Bones, and possibly some inorgranics would be hard enough for a trap like the Armor Debuff. Forcing you to worry about the quality on top of that just makes it almost pointless to bother. Although, if experimentation is kept to a minimum, it might add a bit more flavor to it. I think very specific creature resources should be needed for the more powerful traps. I'm just not sure that forcing quality into there would make it more interesting. It would definately make it more of a pain for me. Although it might be nice to make some stuff experimentable (maybe the trapping shells?) while keeping the rest of it (like the effects) a bit more static. I see experimentation as a way of differentiating items. I personally see the modular system as complex enough to do that as is. The only things experimentation would add is a dependence on resource quality and a bit of randomness in the crafting. And, to me, the extras are not worth the effort. But the Devs might want it in there as more of a quality control.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Great work nemo0.
Somthing for me to read and get excited about thinking of more possibilities 
I want to post some ideas i have, but they are just seeds of thought right now, and i dont want to ramble