Ranger Archive
Thread: I suggested crafters wanted camo applied by rangers, was flamed for it, now it may be in the game?
*shrug*
What makes you think that crafters won't have alts that will be rangers now?
Iwill respecto a ranger alt to keep my crafter alive. He was a doc before and you know where that went?
There will be a new community of rangers and the old ones will fade away. Just as there are respec'd bounty hunters that were former docs, combat medics etc. etc. We move on and choose the profession that will be most useful to our crafting community.
You think camo kits will be expensive? Wait till you see new weapons and ships about a year from now when pre-CU runs out and most smiths quit because the weapons we craft even for a 12 point smith are far inferior and less glamorous than the curren tKasshyk drops.
A full set of faction armor is now in the millions. Its a bit hard to craft but I was able to do it as a test when I respec'd to armorsmithand used existing resources.
Resources are key to a crafter. Make it harder for us to accumulate it and we will pass it on to the customers. Introduce something like a camo buff then it will tend to mitigate that. Of course now we have to add the expense of using a camo buff but I for one will not do that to my weapons and ships to keep the prices competitive. It won't be as cheap but at least now we have an alternative to being 1 strike incapped by mobs.
Now we have an added bonus of selling camo buffs jsus as the old docs used to sell stim Ds and such in the old days. For added strength, some will sit around in a startport and apply it for a fee.
I think it adds versatility- just notthe way you see it.
Marsirion wrote:
So...
Master Ranger camo:
3 hours for masters
less than 3 hours for less than master
craftable by rangers
breaks if crafter attacks a mob or is attacked by NPC
It will be planet specific (10 planets?)
Planet specific camos can all be applied at the same time
Um... all that is already in the game, except for the part where camo breaks if a creature attacks you, and NPC's just flat ignore camo entirely, and it doesn't last for 3 hours because it'd break before then, or you'd leave the planet. And every camo kit takes specific resources for each component. Dathomirian Camo kits require Dathomirian Leathery Hide, Dathomirian Animal Bones, and Dathomirian Carnivore meat. So we have to kill 3 rancors to come up with the resources to make any kits.
So basically you're suggesting we should hire some bodyguards to go out with us so we can harvest resources so that you can go out by yourself and harvest resources?
Wait a sec! I have a better idea, we'll let you apply your own less effective camo kits, after the master ranger goes out with his hunting party so he can acquire the supplies to make you a crate of kits that you'll use to little effect in one trip out to harvestors on Dathomir. Can we do that instead?
As a +130 to camo Ranger, I've used up one stack of camo riding from the science outpost to the village and back.
Marsirion wrote:
*shrug*
What makes you think that crafters won't have alts that will be rangers now?
Iwill respecto a ranger alt to keep my crafter alive. He was a doc before and you know where that went?
There will be a new community of rangers and the old ones will fade away. Just as there are respec'd bounty hunters that were former docs, combat medics etc. etc. We move on and choose the profession that will be most useful to our crafting community.
You think camo kits will be expensive? Wait till you see new weapons and ships about a year from now when pre-CU runs out and most smiths quit because the weapons we craft even for a 12 point smith are far inferior and less glamorous than the curren tKasshyk drops.
A full set of faction armor is now in the millions. Its a bit hard to craft but I was able to do it as a test when I respec'd to armorsmithand used existing resources.
Resources are key to a crafter. Make it harder for us to accumulate it and we will pass it on to the customers. Introduce something like a camo buff then it will tend to mitigate that. Of course now we have to add the expense of using a camo buff but I for one will not do that to my weapons and ships to keep the prices competitive. It won't be as cheap but at least now we have an alternative to being 1 strike incapped by mobs.
Now we have an added bonus of selling camo buffs jsus as the old docs used to sell stim Ds and such in the old days. For added strength, some will sit around in a startport and apply it for a fee.
I think it adds versatility- just notthe way you see it.
Be happy...
As for me... i'm not going to buy anything. As CH/MRanger I DON'T HAVE SKILLS TO BE USEFULL AT ALL... Respeccing is NO options because of my Roleplaying AND my understanding of being Ranger/CH that makes (or rather MADE) this game unique in itself.
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 05-21-2005 07:24 PM
Marsirion wrote:
Now we have an added bonus of selling camo buffs jsus as the old docs used to sell stim Ds and such in the old days. For added strength, some will sit around in a startport and apply it for a fee.
I know I'll be happy as a RANGER, who hunts, to sit aroundCoronet applying Dathomirian camo kits to people. Oh wait, you can't do that, you have to be ON Dathomir. How many crafters go through either of the Dathomirian outposts in an hour? How about in a day? I know I'm going to look forward to sitting in the wrong outpost all day long to apply 2 camo kits for like 5k each, can I really do that? I can't wait!
Well then, you can stop gloating about your proposal being accepted....
Real rangers do not like that behaviour...
SeanBlader wrote:
Marsirion wrote:
Now we have an added bonus of selling camo buffs jsus as the old docs used to sell stim Ds and such in the old days. For added strength, some will sit around in a startport and apply it for a fee.
I know I'll be happy as a RANGER, who hunts, to sit aroundCoronet applying Dathomirian camo kits to people. Oh wait, you can't do that, you have to be ON Dathomir. How many crafters go through either of the Dathomirian outposts in an hour? How about in a day? I know I'm going to look forward to sitting in the wrong outpost all day long to apply 2 camo kits for like 5k each, can I really do that? I can't wait!
You know, people always assume that crafters are rich because we sell high and keep our overhead low. Part of that may be true but the main thing in this overcrowded market is that crafters tend to be crafty. We are very imaginative people and think of ways to make more money inspite of all the obstacles that are put in our way.
Take this CU for example. Crafters were shafted as we didn't get raised in our levels so we suggested getting rangers to craft camo buffs for us.
You just have to be imaginative:
You've got camo buffs selling in thte bazaar. You have your Master Ranger title on all the time as an advertisement of your skills. A crafter sees you and asks if you can fly to Dathomir to apply a buff to him. Of course you are compensated for your time and effort. Of course this is a random encounter but then again is there an easier way to earn n extra 20k or so for a ranger just travelling form port to port?
I admit that the doc analogy is flawed ( I forgot about the same planet part) but you just have to use your imagination a little to see where you can use your skills. Look at the old docs. Before we (docs) knew how useful buffs were there were no docs spamming in the starport for a buff. It took one enterprising individual to see its potential and the restwas doc spamming history.
History just repeats itself with SWG devs. You can't do anything to prevent this camo buff implementation- its there- its in the TC already. You CAN however make sure that if a ranger applies a buff it is so much more worthwhile than a self applied buff. Thats what your correspondent is for.
If you do not assure a powerful ranger applied buff is more worthwhile than a self, non-ranger applied one then you will go with the way of the doc. The doc buffs are only good if they applied it to themselves or group mates since the duration and percentage change is so low that one can arguably live without it.
If that happens with ranger camo then the changes will be for nothing .
Crafters more than anyone else feel the nerf post CU. We tried to get level increased just like Owen did with rangers but our argument never got through. This camo buff is barely what we want and is the devs way of trying to balance us crafters in order to survive.
So you don't want to sell camos to us? Fine, a year from now most weapons will be loot drops anyway since most of the weapons we craft now are inferior to it. Armor? Faction armor is sold for a million due to resource restrictions. Why the resource restrictions? Because crafters are frustrated just harvesting or surveying and dying because we don't have the levels to protect ourselves and the noble rangers won't sell camos to us as a protest against the system. Grouping? A typical crafter makes several runs for surveying and harvester checks a day in different hours of the day. You cannot always group due to time retrictions anwyay.All in all it just adds to the expense of that ship part, weapon or armor that you want to buy.
Why so much vitriolic? When we make weapons, armor, clothing, foods, stimpacksetc. do we not provide a service that is appreciated by the community in general?
Camo buffs provide a safe and useful alternative for those quick runs. We are saying already that this is helpful to us and we do (or will) appreciate it.
There is a market for it.
Its there in the TC and it will not go away.
Make it so that it is useful and profitable for yourselves as well.
Thank you very much.
this is a horrible idea. you wonder why the majority of rangers hate it?
because it's whorring out another of our abilities to the masses! think about it? we fought so damn hard to be a Combat Class, and now we are being pushed into crafting????? W T F???
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Marsirion wrote:
You know, I've played with every combat class but I always tend to think of myself as a crafter. Putting someone in a box though and labeling them "Jedi " or "crafter" or "ranger" limits ones views of the potential of that particular class and brings with it preconceptions and closed mindedness.
Nobody is telling you to sell your camo kits or even make them although some of the rangers will just as nobody told pre-CU docs to sell stimpacks or enhancers but some did. The docs had combat classes pre-CU and they weren't whoring when they were selling their wares.
They provided a useful service which the community appreciated.
Crafters/combatants provide a useful service which YOU combatants appreciated.
Yet we are exposed to the same kind of danger as you combatants are without any form of mitigation at all. We wanted levels like the rangers and Owen pushed hard for that and my hat is off to him. He is a credit to your profession. We got: Loot drops that are more powerful than our crafted weapons, mobs 3-4 levels higher than our level 1 that incaps us in 1-2 blows.
You want to sell your hides to tailors and yet you don't want to protect them. You want to buy power ups, weapons, armor, ships from crafters and yet you look down on "crafters" and crafting as whoring.
You see what I mean by being put in a box? No one is a pure anything (crafter/combatant)nowadays and no profession exists in a vacuum. Each one is dependent on each other.
Sure you can do missions to earn money. Why do you do that?To buygoods to make your experience more enjoyable and efficient. Guess where you buy these goods? Guess what happens if crafters just get frustrated and give up because they keep dying just doing a survery or a harvest run? Lets say just half of them stick it out and continue to craft. What do you think will happen to the prices of your goods and the economy?
No one is forcing you to sell to us just as no one is forcing you to buy anything at all in this game. In fact, there is a move now in this game that most weapons, armor and ships are lootable or quest given rewardsand are more powerful than any crafted item.
So if us crafter "whores" die out as a profession, that will make your on-line experience much richer?
I've said it before. Crafters will appreciate this new addition just ascombatants appreciate stim Ds rightnow even if we dont have medic skills.
Try to keep an open mind and if I were you, since you can't change this now since it in the TC, I would be making it so that it will be more powerful than what doc buffs are now in live. Otherwise it will just be a useless skill that will just benefit rangers.
Then again, if you really hate that part then nerfing the camo would be to your advantage so do nothing. Judging from history, what are the chances that the devs will not get this right even though they do implement it?
Just for argument sake....
You are an artisan?
Then you would not mind Rangers (or every NON-crafter) getting the abilities to place Vendors (more items and higher prices then on the bazaar), since you can do it too. It would allow ranger to sell the precious camo kits you want/need.
If you do mind, then why are you defending your right to get OUR camo skill? That's just egotestical.
You are an entertainer?
Thenyou would not objectif everbody could dance away and give inspirationbuffs themselves. After all, you are getting camouflageappliances you can use too without the need forspending skillpoints. And you can also start selling instruments (as amusician) toeveryone! Great market, combined with the ability to place vendors (see above)...
Stop being an hypocrit.
You are an entertainer?
Sure I don't mind if you get the vendor skill to place vendors that sell camo kits. The more the better. I need your camo kits so anything to help.
Can you say the same for me?
Entertainers? They are already giving it away for free. You forget to mention the medic skills that you get for free by using the analogy of stim Ds.
I refuse to call you a name as that only goes down to a level that makes one's argument feel weak.
I'm not sure what I think of this idea, but one thing is pretty clear... Marsirion'sposts have been polite, detailed, and informed. Not sure he/she deserves some of these responses, at least worded as they are. On the other hand, you crafters need to understand that many rangers are (justifiably) upset that a lot of'our' skills were handed out to other profs in the CU. Pistoliers and combat medics improve uponour trapping skills, with the added benefit that their specials work on anyone and not just creatures. Riflemen were granted the (albeit buggy right now) radar invisibilityfor whichwe've been lobbying for a while now, and were told it couldn't be done. And so on. Many of us are very angry, and as a result the semi-legendary Ranger hospitality has lessened a bit. Don't take it personally.
Now that I've thought about it a bit, I can't say I have a real problem with this idea, for a number of reasons. First and foremost, I don't have to let it affect me-- just because I can camo buff doesn't mean I will. Of all the pre-CU master docs, how many stood in coro starport spamming buffs? I'm guessing only a small percentage. So some rangers who could actually stand to dothat sort of thing get the option. Whatever-- doesn't hurt me at all.
Second, I think this has some good RP potential. I really enjoy using my knowledge of creatures and planets to help someone out. I can see a quick flight to a hostile planet to apply a camo buff turning into a chance to be an outdoorsman/guide for someone who would really appreciate the help. I don't know if any of you have ever tried that, but accompanying a crafter or BE while they do their thing and trying to keep the two of you alive is fun. It's not mindless knight trial critter tracking, getting the 'found it yet?' tell every ten minutes, that's for damn sure.