Ranger Archive

Hey All:

This has been bugging me for awhilebut I decided to wait a bit and gather observations. But it's true: If you're a ranger, you're stuck on the PvE side of the galaxy, whereas everyone else has the whole galaxy.

Our situation is akin to making it so combat medics can poison only animals, and doctors can only buff you against animals. If everyone had Ranger syndrome then Bounty Hunters would only be able to use eyeshot on Womprats and Dewbacks.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Well, that's the situation I think we're in.

Now, don't get me wrong. I LOVE the Ranger skills. How else am I going to be able to keep petting mutant rancors and grauls, or solo Mountain Squills without even using knockdown, or feel free to explore every planet? But over the past month I have been getting into the other side of the Galaxy, something called 'Player versus Player.' And I find that the Ranger side doesn't belong there.

So, I could drop Ranger and grab the BH pistol line. Or become a doctor. Or a combat medic. I know Artisans use up half their skill points in non-combat related professions. That's not a logic fault, because no weaponsmith in the world gets fighting bonuses because of their cool crafting skills. But due to a simple logic fault and a couple faulty catches (see the part about bases)our skills are only good for half the game.

If the following can be changed, I would stay with Ranger all the way. In my view, it's much more fun to have a game that has various approaches, instead of one approach, ie Bounty Hunter eye-shot and Master Marksman sniper shot. (Pre-emptive message: This is not a nerf cry, let them keep it, it's just a fact that they areTHE serious ranged damage dealers in PvP.)

Conceal: Cannot work against players. Works great against NPCs. Works great when I want to walk up to a red-con Imp NPC and pistol smash him. Does nothing against PCs. This seems illogical. Have you ever seen Tusken snipers shooting at you, but they are not on the radar? The only way to target them is to point in the right directin and hit tab. Then they appear. This should be the same effect Rangers have on other players. It's not that you're invisible by any means, you're just being like the sneaky little Tuskens. It's a slight edge, not a game-winner.

Traps: Without a doubt traps should be working against player pets. What happens when an animal becomes tame, they are suddenly impervious to them? I've seen nothing on the forums about a definite answer on whether or not they will eventually work on player pets. And for that reason, why just on player pets? If you can trap a five-ton animal you should sure as heck be able to use that trap on a person. In the military now there are tons of non-lethal weapons like a sticky goo that holds you in place, and electromagnetic pulses that cause pain without injury. Tranquilizers have been used in obscure situations for taking out people, and our tranquilizers only work a few seconds with no penalty to ranged attacks, just rooting. Hell, backin the gladiator days a favorite combo was a net and a trident. Lighter and more nimble than a sword and shield, the gladiator would snare the person in the net, then deliver the deathblow. In modern times you just shoot them in the head, but this is SWG and we have pikemen, for crying out loud.

Seriously, I can see how trapping players might seem way over the top, but if a master combat medic can lay mind poison on you and then shoot you as a master gunfighter, I really don't see the problem. Trapping takes about three seconds - which is a balancer because you can only absorb damage for that time and it has action cost - and most traps cost no damage, one causes a tiny amount of mind damage. They are only a state affect. Granted, you would have every state effect in the game plusroot. But again if combat medics can erase your entire mind pool in one shot that takes about 3 seconds to 15 seconds to take effect (when it does, bye-bye unhealable mind pool, hello incap) I see no problem. Also, if Creature Handlers are able to run players down with pets that can outburst you and have 11k HAMS, I think it's pretty funny that using traps on players would be too powerful. (Not saying nerf CHs, CMs, BHs, or anything, I just would like to keep Ranger, and if you can find fault in the logic please let me know.)

Bases and Camps: The best battles in the game are ones that last a long time, where both sides use strategy and a variety of skills complimenting each other, and where each side is forced to break contact and then re-engage after defending or healing. One awesome thing is when you're in battle is to lay down a camp. This gives the doctors someplace to work, a place to drag incapped back for healing, a place to rally and organize, and a headquarters. The camps also provide cover interrain where there is none. Only one problem: the Ranger who made the camp must stay with it or it's gone in exactly two minutes. Two minutes IF the Ranger doesn't engage in combat. Hell, forget combat, I can't even leave my camp to forage! I've thought about it long and hard and can find no reason why camps are not at least a tiny bit permaneant. The xp for camps maxes out after 10 minutes anyway.

If you want to make people get xp by staying in camps, then make it so that the ranger only gets survival xp if she or he is actually in the camp. There are multiple solutions for this, including a /transfer function in which the Ranger simply transfers the camp to another player, usually a doctor or medic, and the camp abandon timeout is then dependent on the Ranger returning within an hour. This would allow Rangers much more flexibility in combat, both PvE and PvP. Also, the camp timeout for regular abandonment should be increased to 10 minutes, so I can at least fight off an attacker or find some fur-clef onions without having to spend another 25 bone, 40 hide, and 20 metal for another camp.

Also it's a pain in the rear when you're in an area with many 'No camping here there is a lair nearby (even though no lairs are in sight)' problems and only find one camping spot. When your camp times out you can't camp in the same spot or within 60 meters of the first because 'You already have a camp established elsewhere!' No, you stupid progam, that camp is dead and should have disappeared. Hell, they linger longer than it takes for them to become abandoned! Again if the abandonment timeout was fixed or we could transfer this would not be a problem at all and we could engage in PvP or at least defend our camps, which still do nothing to ward off red-cons, btw.

Well, sorry for the long post but trying to be thorough. I love Ranger, it's just that I'm starting to split my time between PvE and PvP and it's like half my skills arealmost worthlessfor half the fun of this awesome game. Also, if Rangers could engage their skills in PvE it would add a lot more color to the game. I'm getting bored of soloing mobs and the thrill of newbs asking me 'Why do the bantha's you're killing just stand in one place?' has worn off. As it stands, after I finish exploring the Galaxy, count coup on all the dangerous things, and check out the lures, hunting blinds and tripwires with the next patch, I'm going to grab doctor or combat medic. Not dissing Ranger at all, I love this profession. I am 5000 camping xp from Master and my friend is going to crown me tomorrow. Then I'm going to do everything I can with Ranger, and switch to something more useful for the whole game.

I really wish I didn't haveto chooseand please don't think I'm one of those whiners who post goodbye messages hoping for sympathy, it's just that I really see no reason why we can't be more effective in PvP at all, and PvP is half the game, of not 60% of the fun. Fighting AIs and exploring are only entertainingfor so long, and my goal in this game is to have maximum amounts of fun, though I've been known to stick with something that bores me out of stubbornpride. I've analyzed game balancing, gameplay, and logic. If our toys worked in PvP I would stay, without question. Maybe I'm missing something, but if anyone can't point out why we should stay exclusive to PvE please let me know. Also, if anyone has definite answers to the points in my post please let me know.

-- Ypiana / Starsider

I have absolutely NO desire to engage in any PvP, but I aggree with you 100%.

There is no logical reason for our traps, as they are described, to not work on player pets (as well as players in some instances).

And we absolutely do need some sort of permenancy applied to, at least, the FB and HTFB. Barring that, we need to get schematics for Planet Specific Hunting Cabin Deeds at Master Ranger!

I agree Ypiana, it would be nice for them to incorporate something that our profession could assist with in attacking factional bases. (I never hear of anyone /shout 'any rangers want to join our group?'). As for pvp combat...with my scatter pistol, BH pistol 4, and a little dabbling in pistoleer I can hold my own in most pvp battles. Of course that brings down sides...especially since I had to drop my artisan prof....

I enjoy the pvp part of the game but usually find myself traveling to the four corners of the planets and doing a little sight-seeing and hunting. I like to find those rare monuments/ crashed Tie Fighters and things that a lot of people couldn't or wouldn't think of going! As long as my pack is full of camps and I have an extra K to clone I'm good to go!

I'm a rifleman and ranger who plays 50% PvP'ing and 50% PvE'ing. I agree Ranger is one of the few classes that can not make money or get bonuses in PvP (except entertainers). But there are still skills you can use for PvP. Tracking is usefull if you know there are enemy overts in the same city as you (or close by). As long as they are not hiding in houses it's usually easy to pinpoint them.

You also have to learn to use the wilderness to your advantages.. as rangers should. If trying to escape, be sure you have maskscent or conceal on and run through the closest bunch with aggro critters you find. With a bit of bad luck they'll go for you, but usually those chasing you will either have to run around the creatures or get attacked themselves. With conceal the same goes for NPCs.

You can also use agressive creatures to create ambushes against overt enemies. If you know a place often travelled by enemies just find a lair with large agressive creatures and hide there. You won't be noticed if the creatures are large enough to "cover" you and few people check every enemy in a hive when just running by.

But yea, I agree we should be able to use traps in PvP.

Hmmm. The hiding-in-aggressive mobs thing has always intruiged me. Sadly, I have pistol. Pistol sucks, so after I complete the two more boxes for master gunfighter I think I'm picking up rifle. Sounds like a waste, but I wonder if completing multiple elite professions could influence your chance of getting an FSS.

I'm more the stand-off sniper type anyway.

Does ranger crawling augment rifle crawling?

Also, don't you wish conceal would work for sniping?

-- YP

/concur

Send this post to the developers. Now if anybody comes along on this one and says it's a whine for lack of ways how to fix the problems as Quas has laid out......well, I won't know what to think about this person.

What Rangers, besides our Forest Rangers, haven't been able to deal with upright walking humanoids? The Army's Rangers are not limited to providing resources for all the people fighting around them. Aragorn, now he slew a lot of humanoid enemies.

The defense "the developers was wanting a PvE class doesn't hold water for me. You don't have to be PvP to be a bounty hunter, they can use their specialties on critters. Why shouldn't we be able to use a few of our goodies on PC's and their pets.

And I agree, don't nerf other classes, just let us have our part! Either way, I'll probably stick with Ranger because I like it and have only recently met folk that made me wince that they were representing us out there. That doesn't mean it should never be improved, and the last changes are improving and I have faith it will balance out.

Trip Wire-- on AT-ST: I know it's been used countless times but here it goes again...... If the Ewoks (which make great breakfast steak, btw) can take them down, why oh why can't we?

Well server just went down for maintenance. Hopefully some of our complaints are being tweaked. Quas, I know you want to be able to do more, but if you quit Rangering and then what you hoped would happen for the class, then it may be tough for you to want to go back up that tree! Of course, I know you already know this and was about as useful as advising someone to be careful, sorry!

Ya'll be sweet!

Okay, Iam going to have to disagree with you Gaby. Youimply Forest Rangers don't deal with upright walking humanoids. Forest Rangers fall under Fish&Game or departments closely related. It is one of the most dangerous jobs do to poachers not to mention wild animals. So it is safe to say that ALL Rangers can kick humanoid butt if they have training. And if Master Ranger doesn't say I have had training, I don't know what in this game does.

The first post is awsome and well thought out. Congrats on an intelligent post. It is one of the few I have seen on these boards.

yeah,

I was reading other posts and it hit me too, those guys out there doing there job (GameWardens and F&W and Forest Rangers)would have to have the same training in respects, I mean, they're usually out in the woods dealing with people that are more than likely armed...... I meant no disrespect to them and definitely hope not to hijack this post with that issue.

Maybe I should just go on to bed and get some sleep.

I do wish I would have clarified this before you did it for me, lol!

Anyway! Back to this fine post......

Again, ya'll be sweet!

Hehe, yeah.

Both of my parents are or have been with Florida Fish and Wildlife as well as Police Officers, EMT's and Volunteer Firefighters and I can tell you that they considered it Far more dangerous to be out in the woods with drunken poacherssportingguns than they did while roaming around in patrol cars.

I dont know about Park Rangers, but I can only assume that they have a tough time with intoxicated people toting guns as well.

Also, as F&W, my rents had Far more encounters with dangerous people in the wilderness than they had with dangerous animals! Just something to think about.

I heard a ton of "ranger" stories while I was living under my parents roof... The best are the ones about poachers catching themselves. Proof that animal traps DO work on people!

last night i participated in a raid on bestine and theed.

as this was my first raid with this group of poeple, one of the leaders asked me ''what combat skills do you have?'' to which i replied ''er..i'm a ranger''

''oh''

...silence...

if only you could be ranger and commando hehe (195 points just to get novice ranger and novice commando). oh well, perhaps i'll put down my gunslinging (since i'm always at long range) and pick up a rifle instead. it's something i've been considering for quite a long time, and well....have really just been looking for an excuse to do it. anywho, excellent post, and maybe if we keep 'reminding' the devs, we will eventually be 'granted' the ability to make an actual field base instead of just a glorified pup tent.

Master Ranger..will be Master Pistoleer.

I know many feel Pistoleer needs some luving, but come on we ain't exactly inept.

I hold my own in groups and solo like there is no tomorrow.....

PvP is borked right now..........So yes, the Ranger might feel a little out of it.

But you do have lots of combat options open to you.

Why does everyone feel the need to be the "BEST" in pvp.

It's about a war, not individuals striving to be the best. Or is it?

Being a ex-Canadian Military man I can tell you individuals were soon sorted out. They either learned to fit into the "team" or their lives were made hell.

Part of the problem with this game is the grouping aspect. If thats was fleshed out more you would see some PvP tactics and real team work.

Bruce Willis and Sylvester Stallone are only movie stars......Their movies aren't real you know