Ranger Archive
Thread: CU: Camo/Mask
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Fred_Skinner
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:05 am
#1
This thread is for the discussions about our stealth capabilities in general and the commands /conceal and /maskscent specifically. Therefore it's related to Scouts as well and they are also welcome here.
Some key issues (that I can think of):
- Is it (/conceal, /maskscent) really cost effective enough to use?
- If not, what can we do to make them "usable"?
- Remove or reduce cost of usage?
- Increase it's power?
- lengthen active times?
- as an aside, should this (stealth)be made usable in GCW. If so, how would this be done?
- Just a good stat buff?
- Drop from radar?
- Drop from radar and vis?
- If rifleman get this (drop from 'dar), should we get it too? Should our version be better?
- Are we still having issues on guaranteed breaks on certain conditions?
- Is it working with NPC's (It's been a while sense I have actually played, so my reference is 3 months old)
All I can think of atm, please post if you have more to add and post your opionions on those up there that I did think of.
Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 04-07-2005 08:49 AM
Owen-Lars
Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:44 am
#3
heh my post must not have gone through 
Well basically: Great work (in others a bump)
Its linked too in the guide
Owen-Lars
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:24 am
#4
Maskscent isnt giving xp anymore fred.
Tried it against many many mobs today and havnt had any xp granted.
It seems as if the targets are actually ignoring the check all together and some agro mobs dont even attack me even when unmasked and 1m away from them half naked and dancing.
Cant test camo yet but i think agent is going to make some asap as soon as they become available to us, i expect the same thing though.
agent156
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:29 am
#5
Yes and lots of it. Even if there is a wipe I'll just grind it all back and set up shop again.
AragornSoS
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:16 am
#6
There's also no more visible indication that you're actually masked. Used to get the lil nose icon, I would have assumed that if you'd masked that you'd get the funky new icon in the buff/debuff bar under your HAM display, but I'm not seeing anything. Right now it looks like the only way to know if you're masked or not is to either read through all the system messages to look for the one saying it wore out, or periodically and randomly /mask, and see if that applies or removes it.
/bugged in game
darmokVtS
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:20 am
#7
Owen-Lars wrote:Maskscent isnt giving xp anymore fred.Tried it against many many mobs today and havnt had any xp granted.It seems as if the targets are actually ignoring the check all together and some agro mobs dont even attack me even when unmasked and 1m away from them half naked and dancing.Cant test camo yet but i think agent is going to make some asap as soon as they become available to us, i expect the same thing though.
This very likely is closely tied to the fact that I couldn't find a single aggro creature on tatooine that actually aggroed me before I attacked it
.
Jolandir
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:24 am
#8
Fred_Skinner you are opening a really large can of worms, but you are right it is drastically needed.
First, conceal (use of camoflauge) and maskscent doesn't work against players at all. second Maskscent doesn't work agains NPCs at all, yet now all of sudden in an Elite Combat profession that doesn't have either of these, they can conceal and disappear off of the radar completely even against players. We were repeatedly told they would never allow us to do this with maskscent or camo. So why in the #$%^ do they get to do it. I don't mind them doing it, but why do we not get to do it and do it better, as we have the real skills to achieve this and we have to really work to earn even what little we do against creatures and to some degree NPCs.
How can they justify not giving us this in CU for the GCW if they have repeatedly told us NO! and now they just up and give it to another group who doesn't even have to master all the things of nature and terrain that would make this skilltruly work in RL. It is unbelieveable that they can't see this. Yes our version should be better, just like we have to now master Rifleman to even be considered a combatant, and yet we must work and risk and train to conceal from creatures and npcs already (when it actually works).
We should be able to put up como buildings and lodges that if our friends/faction are invited into it, it totally conceals them from radar and visibility. This would make at least some camps worth while in combat.
We should be able to use our traps against players and be able to camoflauge them so they can't be seen unless they have a Ranger who can "detect" them.
We should be able to camo our creatures just like we currently can a friend and have them be unseen.
Why is everyone getting our skills of conceal, area affects that we have had for a long time, limited only by the imagination of the devs, meaning only usable against usually creatures, and in camo's case NPCs. Now others get to use this against players but not us. Right! We have screamed, begged and pleaded and they have turned a deaf ear to us constantly.
Now we will not even get the health necessary to survive major creautures either.
This is so rediculous it isn't even funny. After the CU goes live, how long will it take for them to finally, maybe, possibly, consider at some time to give us some things that will once again make us useful in SWG! I know, I know "wiat and see". Right!
It is time for seeing is believing!
Jolandir
WildBil2Me
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:37 pm
#9
Owen-Lars wrote:
Maskscent isnt giving xp anymore fred.
Tried it against many many mobs today and havnt had any xp granted.
It seems as if the targets are actually ignoring the check all together and some agro mobs dont even attack me even when unmasked and 1m away from them half naked and dancing.
Cant test camo yet but i think agent is going to make some asap as soon as they become available to us, i expect the same thing though.
Owen, it is and it isn't.
/mask and then find a mob of aggros. Start tapping one. Every few hits you should get a maskscent award.
This is what I've seen at least.
It is my belief that currently (intended or not) maskscent has become like Medical healing.
You only get the bonusin combat when you make an attack that goes unnoticed.
Again. I do not know if this is intended ... I was going to sign on to test it tonight after 24. First I gotta root for Kiefer and the CTU team!
Owen-Lars
Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:13 pm
#10
Hmm thats weird. Will definatly have to do some more testing on it.
And 24 is great 
too bad over here in the uk we are so far behind you heh (so please dont tell me what's happening hehe)
too bad over here in the uk we are so far behind you heh (so please dont tell me what's happening hehe)
WildBil2Me
Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:25 pm
#11
At first blush that's what it looks like to me.
disproved this second part.
Message Edited by WildBil2Me on 04-04-2005 10:31 PM
Almagill
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:56 pm
#12
* Is it (/conceal, /maskscent) really cost effective enough to use?
/maskscent is 'cost effective' in that it uses no resources, you earn it at a low level and it works, pretty well, against all creatures (bar a few well known exceptions) up to the really high levels when you're pushing your luck anyway.
/conceal. atm we cant check this in CU, but in Live it is cost effective up to a point. If you spend a lot of time on a planet its worth gathering enough resources to craft a few spare packs or do a short factory run. If, otoh, its a planet you don't visit often, yavin IV for me, it can be more trouble than it's worth running round trying to get enough resources to make the packs when, in the same amount of time, you could have hauled ass, finished your mission and got out of dodge, relying on maskscent. UNLESS there are NPC involved, more later.
It's not just the high end planets that the resource collection can be a pain on. Corellia? The pack there needs insect meat, iirc? Butterflies..... (remember, not everyone is master rifles
)
* If not, what can we do to make them "usable"?
o Remove or reduce cost of usage?
Change the resources to a more generic mix. Instead of specifically a herb meat or wooly hide, just meat, hide, bone. Whatever type, from that planet.
o Increase it's power?
Nah, keep the power the same, its nice having a little 'risk'.
o lengthen active times?
Treat them like buffs and give us a visible timer. If you can see when its going to puff you can avoid aggro at the crucial moment, reapply and then head on your way.
* as an aside, should this (stealth) be made usable in GCW. If so, how would this be done?
o Just a good stat buff?
o Drop from radar?
o Drop from radar and vis?
o If rifleman get this (drop from 'dar), should we get it too? Should our version be better?
I think the stealth issue has to be seperate from the MS/conceal issue. One is an existing skill, the other is one that we want a variation on. However, I thing a drop from radar and vis would be appropriate.
* Are we still having issues on guarentteed breaks on certain conditions?
****AT THE TIME OF POSTING****
maskscent was broken / nonfunctioning on TC-5
and nobody had access to Ranger flavour skills.
The comments below are general observations
from LIVE and for Information Only.
Obviously, if MS / conceal behaviours change dramatically
with CU my opinion on value may change significantly.
Kreetles. Tho, to be fair, I can go thru kreetles with cammo on and 90% of the time it doesnt' break.
High end mobs, such as krayt, kimos, some NPC's seem to be able to break it. Odd thing is, you get the XP as if they check and fail,tehn cahk and succeed.
* Is it working with NPC's (It's been a while sense I have actually played, so my reference is 3 months old)
Some. It is inconsistent.
Tusken, I can dance in and around htem and be unharmed if cammoed. Dark Sun? No worries. Thugs? Hermits? I'm dead. Some NPC's (mission NPC in particular) will aggro and not break cammo. Which cna be odd if you are getting attacked by an NPC on Dant and the quenkers are ignoring you.
Also, if the MoB/NPC's are aggroed by other player activity, this seems to increase their 'alert' level and increase chance of detection. Prime example is the Warren. I can cammo up, walk in unarmed and spamming peace, and get most of the way through without any problem. Even the gun turret fires a second or two later (we tried this to make sure it wasn't just wishful thinking, cammoed player gets thru with just a shot in the butt, uncammoed player is shot before they get to the door) However, if you have other players in the warren shooting and killign everything you can pretty much guarantee aggro.
As I said before tho, that relates to 'now' on Live, until elite professions are opened up on TC, we won't know how the CU will affect cammo. But its one of the first things I'll be checking. Got my tat resources already) Curently maskscent is broken on TC with XP from it being granted so rarely that people have to tell each other in RIN. It's not even breaking with kreetles, but they are possibly not checking.
Also, we've got no nose icon to tell us how we smell
/maskscent is 'cost effective' in that it uses no resources, you earn it at a low level and it works, pretty well, against all creatures (bar a few well known exceptions) up to the really high levels when you're pushing your luck anyway.
/conceal. atm we cant check this in CU, but in Live it is cost effective up to a point. If you spend a lot of time on a planet its worth gathering enough resources to craft a few spare packs or do a short factory run. If, otoh, its a planet you don't visit often, yavin IV for me, it can be more trouble than it's worth running round trying to get enough resources to make the packs when, in the same amount of time, you could have hauled ass, finished your mission and got out of dodge, relying on maskscent. UNLESS there are NPC involved, more later.
It's not just the high end planets that the resource collection can be a pain on. Corellia? The pack there needs insect meat, iirc? Butterflies..... (remember, not everyone is master rifles
)* If not, what can we do to make them "usable"?
o Remove or reduce cost of usage?
Change the resources to a more generic mix. Instead of specifically a herb meat or wooly hide, just meat, hide, bone. Whatever type, from that planet.
o Increase it's power?
Nah, keep the power the same, its nice having a little 'risk'.
o lengthen active times?
Treat them like buffs and give us a visible timer. If you can see when its going to puff you can avoid aggro at the crucial moment, reapply and then head on your way.
* as an aside, should this (stealth) be made usable in GCW. If so, how would this be done?
o Just a good stat buff?
o Drop from radar?
o Drop from radar and vis?
o If rifleman get this (drop from 'dar), should we get it too? Should our version be better?
I think the stealth issue has to be seperate from the MS/conceal issue. One is an existing skill, the other is one that we want a variation on. However, I thing a drop from radar and vis would be appropriate.
* Are we still having issues on guarentteed breaks on certain conditions?
****AT THE TIME OF POSTING****
maskscent was broken / nonfunctioning on TC-5
and nobody had access to Ranger flavour skills.
The comments below are general observations
from LIVE and for Information Only.
Obviously, if MS / conceal behaviours change dramatically
with CU my opinion on value may change significantly.
Kreetles. Tho, to be fair, I can go thru kreetles with cammo on and 90% of the time it doesnt' break.
High end mobs, such as krayt, kimos, some NPC's seem to be able to break it. Odd thing is, you get the XP as if they check and fail,tehn cahk and succeed.
* Is it working with NPC's (It's been a while sense I have actually played, so my reference is 3 months old)
Some. It is inconsistent.
Tusken, I can dance in and around htem and be unharmed if cammoed. Dark Sun? No worries. Thugs? Hermits? I'm dead. Some NPC's (mission NPC in particular) will aggro and not break cammo. Which cna be odd if you are getting attacked by an NPC on Dant and the quenkers are ignoring you.
Also, if the MoB/NPC's are aggroed by other player activity, this seems to increase their 'alert' level and increase chance of detection. Prime example is the Warren. I can cammo up, walk in unarmed and spamming peace, and get most of the way through without any problem. Even the gun turret fires a second or two later (we tried this to make sure it wasn't just wishful thinking, cammoed player gets thru with just a shot in the butt, uncammoed player is shot before they get to the door) However, if you have other players in the warren shooting and killign everything you can pretty much guarantee aggro.
As I said before tho, that relates to 'now' on Live, until elite professions are opened up on TC, we won't know how the CU will affect cammo. But its one of the first things I'll be checking. Got my tat resources already
) Curently maskscent is broken on TC with XP from it being granted so rarely that people have to tell each other in RIN. It's not even breaking with kreetles, but they are possibly not checking.Also, we've got no nose icon to tell us how we smell
Message Edited by Almagill on 04-05-2005 04:58 AM
Message Edited by Almagill on 04-06-2005 11:43 PM
Zaene1
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:20 pm
#13
Just finished a session using maskscent.
Still notgetting XP.......most of the time. On Tat, I did get 33 xp 2 or 3 times. Not sure why I got it then and no other times.
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