Ranger Archive
Thread: New pre-req for Rangers?
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MaleusGaryn
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:21 pm
#1
Does anyone know if there will be changes to the pre-requisites for the Ranger profession? I see most others will only require 2 four box lines. e.g. Commando, formally needed Master Marksman and Brawler Unarmed IV, now only needs Marksman Ranged Support IV and Brawler Unarmed IV.
Will this happen for Rangers as well? I'm trying to add up my skillpoints to see if I can make a switch to Ranger. But as the profession stands now, needing to Master Scout, in addition to Marksman for Commando, I will not be able to climb the entire Ranger tree.
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks much.
Creaturetaimer
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:56 pm
#2
i'll be honest I HOPE NOT!! it will not be the same if we don't keep it. though if master scout is dropped as the prerequisite i will keep it anyway.
linusboarder
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:48 pm
#3
I hope it is changed a little. Only because i would like to be an Elite combat, M ranger and completely FS, and right now that's not possible.
We only need a few more SP for it too, so i hope they tweak it just a little
We only need a few more SP for it too, so i hope they tweak it just a little
Circe' Pojia
Phenix1050
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:49 pm
#4
It's essentially impossible to do this. Every modifier in Ranger comes from Scout. Could you use scout traps if you didn't have scout trapping. How about Scout Camps? Would a master Ranger without the harvesting line harvest as much as they do now?
You can't just say "drop the pre-reqs" without considering the implications.
PFD
Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:17 am
#5
I beleive that Ranger is the last class that requires Mastery of a normal profession in game (Scout). This is just not right BH and commando should still require Master Marksman ,and you should only have to master ONE combat profession to get the max HAM.
BioEngine
Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:36 am
#6
Confirmed by me: I got on TC-Bloodfin last night, and Master Teras Kasi.
I had 2700 HAM (I'm a Twi-Lek) and had a CL of 75.
Ziege19
Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:41 am
#7
It's just as possible to do change our pre-reqs (and just as necessary, if not more) as it was to change Doctor's. There's simply no justification for Ranger being the highest SP requirement in the game while being the weakest of any combat profession.
Iseult
Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:45 am
#8
well, confirmed in the negative by me -- if you have more than four skill points in FS skills, then the only elite combat prof you'll be able to master in Bounty Hunter. This will give you a level of 80 with master ranger and the full HAM allocation. However, you won't get the additional modifiers that you would have gotten if you stacked MBH with another combat prof.
The same holds true with ranger and other advanced combat prof masteries- yes you can master ranger and another advanced combat prof and get your level up to 80, but you won't get any combat advantages from ranger -- so you have a combat level equivalent to two elite masteries, but only the benefits of one.... In a game where the hidden harvest modifier is kill speed, we're going to be really hurting.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Rifleperson
Master Ranger / Mediocre Rifleperson
Bloodfin
Message Edited by Iseult on 04-21-2005 10:46 AM
Phenix1050
Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:50 am
#9
hopefully issues like the actual modifiers in the Ranger trees will be addressed. I'm positive that evey corr. we've had has pushed for use to be more than mobile harvestors. The exact role desired has changed with each corr, but the spirit of being a fun and viable profession remians. Owen, or they next guy, will likely ensure that generic mods are placed into Ranger if we don't get our own way of hunting.
Jolandir
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:00 am
#10
We are, as far as the current state of the new CU is concerned, the only profession now that is required to master a basic profession (Scout). This includes every artisan profession, and medic profession. Doctors are no longer required to master medic, CM's go up one tree of medic. Because in the past you had to master Marksman to be able to Master Commando or BH you could not master both of them, but now you can and youwill still have SP left over.
You can't name any other profession in SWG that requires this unless it happens to be in the entertainer field (I have not checked this out yet, so I don't want to be absolute on it). We are the only "fighting" profession that now is required to master a basic profession to be able to Master their chosen Elite Profession. I am being careful to distinguish here between a so called full on "combat profession" and "fighting" professions, because we are not at this point in time considered a true "combat profession". Now remember Doctors, CMs, Squad Leaders (they come off of Scout), CH (only off of scout) are now considered combat professions, I believe Squad leaders have always been considered a combat profession, and have signature weapons (this is a weapon solely given and usable by these professions) with specials (these are special moves designed for these professions to usewith any weapon available to them). And they have speed, accuracy, defensive and offensive mitigations given in their professions to help them in fighting (I stated fighting because these help them in fighting creatures and non imperial or non rebel npcs as well as in the GCW). Now Ch's do not get signature weapons and specials in the typical sense of the word. Their creatures are their signature weapons of choice, and their specials are designed into their weapons of choice, like you find with Commando weapons, at least at this time, and I wouldn't have any problem with them getting signature weapons and specials just like the type that the other combat professions get (Yes they are considered a combat profession). But, these are things we do notreceive currently in live or in the new CU, as it stands currently, as Scout/Rangers (remember any profession that has to use a least one branch in either brawler or marksman get fighting specials in these basic professions as well).
OK, this has immediate ramifications to anyone want to be a Ranger/M Ranger.
First it is important to state that the Devs have as far as health, cl level, and armorare concerned, given us the same ranking as combat professions, because if you master Ranger you stilldo achievecl 80 and full health, andhave certified armor, Battle Armor to be exact (certification is essential or you can't use armor) with various armor mitigation benefits, along with the so called "combat professions".
Secondly, and this is important to our ability to fight, and we are a fighting profession (even if you want us to remain a pure non-combat profession), we do not get these other very necessary or should I say very advantageous benefits given to the so called combat professions or combat support professions (doctors and medics) when they are fighting (meaning not just in combat in the sense of against Imperials or Rebels, but fighting against creatures and other factional npcs). Because we are constantly fighting in our profession, not even Dwarf Nunas flee from us when we attack them. They all aggro singularly or in mass on us. Thus in order to fight effectively you have to have at least one combat profession or a combination of combat professional levels in order to even be able to fight and function as a Scout/Ranger.
Thirdly, even when you do acquire one of the combat professions so you can actually go out and do battle with any and all creatures in SWG, you can not fight these creatures and factional groups that are not a part of the GCW, as effectively.Because we do not get anywhere near as many defensive and offensive bonuses, nor the specials and signature weapons as well as all the other weapons in the game advantages in fighting creatures and these other npcs. Unlike the GCW we can't declare ourselves "citizens" on leave and just go out and walk by Rancor lairs as an example or other aggro factional groups in SWG. We fight our way or tactically and stratically manuver our way through this very hostile territory to stay alive. And yet all the documentation classifies us as the best and most powerful and deadly hunters in the galaxies. Even one of the levels in hunting is described as military training.
So combat professions get all these advantages when fighting creatures and because they also get all the bonuses (offensive and defensive bonuses), speical moves, and signature weapons they can "fight" beyond what we can achieve in being able to only achieve one true combat prfession, they are and will be more affective in staying alive, and with their added SP they usually have enough to get our TN, and/or traps as well in the Scout profession if they want them, or they can get basic medic ifthey don't have meditation in TKA sufficient to heal their own wounds.
At this point in time we do not have and it doesn't look like in the establishing of this CU, we will have any pre-req rebalance for Rangers. And these disadvantages will be here till or if we get such revamping for Rangers.
So, with the above in mind, having to master Scout before we can become Rangers is a distinct disadvantage for us. If the Devsdo get to the point where they will give us the same considerations, then whether we want to be Rangers and be hunters all the time, or if we want to be Rangers who love the out of doors and hunting as well as participating in the GCW will not matter as much, because we will be on a par with other fighting groups in both arenas or at least nearly on a par with them, and hopefully we will always have the advantage in hunting and harvesting the deadly creatures of SWG.
Just my 2 cents worth on your question.
Jolandir
CuchulainnDarklight
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:14 am
#11
Phenix1050 wrote:
It's essentially impossible to do this. Every modifier in Ranger comes from Scout. Could you use scout traps if you didn't have scout trapping. How about Scout Camps? Would a master Ranger without the harvesting line harvest as much as they do now?
You can't just say "drop the pre-reqs" without considering the implications.
Exactly, which is why we should consider having the SP cost of the Ranger skills reduced by 1 point each.
I know people will say that will make others dabble in Ranger, but, dont be so stupid, nobody is going to master scout just to dabble in Ranger. Pluss there is nothing wrong with being a part ranger either. The whole idea of the CU is to allow a higher degree of mix and matching of templates for a greater variety of characters.
Unfortunately the CL value of your enemy compared to you in combat determining who will win before the battle starts kind of ruins this whole idea!
If we have each ranger box reduced by 1 SP each, we will have a SP surplus of enough to master another elite profession plus 6 FS trees. Of course we will need our own signature weapons (not just traps) and the correct defensive speed and accuracy mods to make us viable.
Unfortunately the way things are im dropping ranger as soon as the CU goes live. Im going with master pistols, master BH, and some rifle. That gives me great defense and offensive, and, more importantly allows me to actually play more than 15-20% of the game and still do a bit of creature hunting from time to time.
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 04-21-2005 09:15 AM
Ziege19
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:44 am
#12
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:It's essentially impossible to do this. Every modifier in Ranger comes from Scout. Could you use scout traps if you didn't have scout trapping. How about Scout Camps? Would a master Ranger without the harvesting line harvest as much as they do now?You can't just say "drop the pre-reqs" without considering the implications.Exactly, which is why we should consider having the SP cost of the Ranger skills reduced by 1 point each.
I know people will say that will make others dabble in Ranger, but, dont be so stupid, nobody is going to master scout just to dabble in Ranger. Pluss there is nothing wrong with being a part ranger either. The whole idea of the CU is to allow a higher degree of mix and matching of templates for a greater variety of characters.
Unfortunately the CL value of your enemy compared to you in combat determining who will win before the battle starts kind of ruins this whole idea!
If we have each ranger box reduced by 1 SP each, we will have a SP surplus of enough to master another elite profession plus 6 FS trees. Of course we will need our own signature weapons (not just traps) and the correct defensive speed and accuracy mods to make us viable.
Unfortunately the way things are im dropping ranger as soon as the CU goes live. Im going with master pistols, master BH, and some rifle. That gives me great defense and offensive, and, more importantly allows me to actually play more than 15-20% of the game and still do a bit of creature hunting from time to time.
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 04-21-2005 09:15 AM
My math may be off, but I don't reducing our SP cost by 16 would give us enough for another elite combat prof and the 24 pts needed for the FS trees. I think we'd have 20 pts left over. Plus, it would still leave us the highest SP cost of any combat prof while remaining by far the weakest of any combat prof.
(Did the math in my head tho, so if I'm wrong, sorry)
Ziege19
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:46 am
#13
I think a good and easy solution would be to give us rifle skills in the same way that smuggler has pistol skills. Of course our SP cost should still be reduced to equal the rest of the combat profs 
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