Ranger Archive
Thread: New pre-req for Rangers?
Page 2 of 2
WornTraveler
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:46 am
#14
They won;t be dropping our Master Pre-req. What WOULD be nice is what they did with Image Designers- take away one SP cost from each box of the four trees, freeing up sixteen skillpoints. That would be the best idea I think- no ranger FotM but a lot more playable.
Tarnak_Archvold
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:27 pm
#15
In the olden time when bounty hunter required both master marksman and master scout, thair argument use to be "We are the most skill point expensive profession in the game, so we should be the most powerful one", and it appeared that the DEV's accepted that.
Well now ranger is the most skill point expensive profession in the game, so obviously we should be the most powerful profession in the game, but only in the wild. Or in the Jedi spirit... we are the endgame!
Once the ranger rewrap roles around we should get extra attention, we should be given a role in the game that is unique, and we should be given the tools to fill that role no mater what other combat profession we choose.
Well now ranger is the most skill point expensive profession in the game, so obviously we should be the most powerful profession in the game, but only in the wild. Or in the Jedi spirit... we are the endgame!
Once the ranger rewrap roles around we should get extra attention, we should be given a role in the game that is unique, and we should be given the tools to fill that role no mater what other combat profession we choose.
JBMat
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:01 pm
#16
Becoming a Ranger without being a Master Scout is stupid, pure plain and simple.
These are the breaks. Don't act like a BH and whine and snivel. They got out of mastering Scout and now have zero argument for NPC traps. Buncha dumbazzes. Don't take the easy path, it's mined.
I am level 80, have a triple master and 4 FS points. If and when I want to go Jed-eye and become a paddywan, I will first save up enough points to fill all 24 boxes at once. It's not a great sacrifice to not have the FS skills.
I am proud that Ranger is staying one of the few (I think we are the only) professions requiring mastery of a basic profession.
JB
sknomad
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:17 pm
#17
I don't see anything wrong with having to master scout... if ranger (which is considered a combat prof) gets two things done to it..
1) Combat viable specials/abilities - make the traps workable on players and npcs at the very least
2) a "reverse reduction" in skill points - Choosing to be a ranger should not exclude you from being force sensitive to the fullest of your ability, while remaining viable in combat.
I would propose thatsince mastering ranger + another elite combat prof leaves you with 4 points (and you need 24 points to reach padawan) - this means we're 20 points short of becoming 'fully' FS.
How do we get those 20 points ?
reduce skill point costs - but where?
How about making Master Scout a Free box (+6 points) - Leaving us with a -14 point deficit
- I know scouts would probably be up in the air about it - but who really is going to master scout for the minimal benefits the master box gives, except rangers? - and at the same time it would give "Master Scouts" a few more points to put into combat viable skills.
To make up the remaining 14 points, reduce the costs of the 'less useful' ranger trees; namely frontiering and trapping by 6 points each - making the boxes cost 4/2/2/0 (but stillretain the xp requirement)rather than 5/4/3/2
- this reduction would only be on the camping and trapping trees.
- to go along with the skill point reduction, shuffle the mods/certs of those trees a bit, and make up the difference in the master box, thus discouraging people from 'dabbling' (as if spending the points in scout camping/trapping wouldn't discourage them enough)
- this leaves us with a -2 deficit
Make Master Ranger a Free box, and reduce the cost of novice ranger by 1
- Again, balancing the benefits of the reduced skillpoints back into the master box
I know it is a radical and more involved approach, but it would still retain 95% of the value of ranger and scout for those who wish to master it.
so.. to sumarrize
============
1) Give Rangers some combat viable mods/uses/abilities
2) reduction of skillpoints for
- master scout -6
- master ranger -1
- novice ranger -1
- frontiering and trapping trees -6 points each
- total point reduction = -20 which allows for becoming fully FS
no doubt there are drawbacks to this as well - but I think this way would atleast keep the value of mastering the professions themselves..
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:40 am
#18
This is a discussion that has been held several times already, even before the CU.
My opinion:
1. We need master scout. All scout trees are (or rahter should) become more usefull and advanced when becoming a ranger.
2. "Dumbing down" (whoever invented that terminology....) Ranger by reducing the 16 boxes with 1 point each is NOT a solution. This will probably get ourselves in a likely position like the ID, which has also become rather useless (no more stat migration anyone?)
Having this hug skillpoint sink should enable us to use it as a lever to get things done: REVAMP Ranger.
Like:
* making the TRAPS WAY better then they currently are [insert link to trapping ideas here] (i'm lazy so i didn't do it).
* enhanced modular camping [again insert link]
And so on.
The ranger community has given already a lot of great ideas to improve the Ranger profession which is viable, balanced and fun to play!!! To us Rangers, if you want to dabble... (Ranger --4- is the most common 
) then it's your choice...
) then it's your choice... Most I know are Master Ranger cause there is no other way for us. --- Ranger is not a profession, it's a lifestyle --- seems to be our motto to which I agree wholeheartedly.
BioEngine
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:46 am
#19
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
This is a discussion that has been held several times already, even before the CU.
My opinion:
1. We need master scout. All scout trees are (or rahter should) become more usefull and advanced when becoming a ranger.
2. "Dumbing down" (whoever invented that terminology....) Ranger by reducing the 16 boxes with 1 point each is NOT a solution. This will probably get ourselves in a likely position like the ID, which has also become rather useless (no more stat migration anyone?)
Having this hug skillpoint sink should enable us to use it as a lever to get things done: REVAMP Ranger.
Like:
* making the TRAPS WAY better then they currently are You're Welcome (i'm lazy so i didn't do it).
* enhanced modular camping Don't wanna sound repetetive here.
And so on.
The ranger community has given already a lot of great ideas to improve the Ranger profession which is viable, balanced and fun to play!!! To us Rangers, if you want to dabble... (Ranger --4- is the most common
Most I know are Master Ranger cause there is no other way for us. --- Ranger is not a profession, it's a lifestyle --- seems to be our motto to which I agree wholeheartedly.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:51 am
#20
BioEngine wrote:
Having this hug skillpoint sink should enable us to use it as a lever to get things done: REVAMP Ranger.
Like:
* making the TRAPS WAY better then they currently are You're Welcome (i'm lazy so i didn't do it).
* enhanced modular camping Don't wanna sound repetetive here.
I thank you 
Owen, if you read it... are they stickied (or glued inside the general ranger revamp)?
MaleusGaryn
Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:02 am
#21
Wow... I never expected so many replies.
First off, thank you to all who answered. I do appreaciate all of your oppinions.
I'd like to say that I do not necessarily WANT the Ranger pre-reqs to change. I was just asking if they would be so I could figure out a template for myself. Right now I am Master Commando/Master Rifleman/Novice Medic(2 points in FS, total SP=249). I was going to switch Rifles for Smuggler when the CU hit live. However, my alt toon is a Master Armorsmith and with the large increase in needed creature resources, I figured I would need to be able to hunt/harvest for myself. I won't have enough money to buy large quantities of hide/bone.
With that in mind, I have been trying to figure out how to work my profession around to get Ranger. I don't like to dabble, so if I'm going to go Ranger, I'm mean to Master it. I can't just drop Rifles, cause that will just give me 63 skill points(now cause Commando needs master marks). Dropping Commando gives me 126 right now. (Unarmed IV, Master Marks, Pistols IV, Carbines IV) Dropping Novice Medic would be needed also, uping my free SP to 142(plus my one current free SP). Master Ranger requires a total of 140 SP. So I could be a Master Rifles/Master Ranger and still have 2 SP free to finish the Ranged Defense FS line. I can live without more FS skills for now.
So it sounds do-able. But I don't like the fact that Rifleman is so weak defensively. I know they have a lot of offensive firepower, but if I'm out hunting solo, I will need some good defensive abilities. With that in mind I took a look at some other professions and decided that Bounty Hunter would be my best bet. They have strong offensive and defensive abilities and with the Ranger's traps(if they work) I would have creature "crowd control". And I kinda like the idea of being able to track anything in the game, lol.
My only other option would be to have my alt drop AS and I'd have to outsource for my armor. That could get REALLY expensive. So as Rangers yourselves, what do you think about my options? Do you guys have suggestions or does this sound like a viable plan?
I really appreciate your help.
p.s. If they do revamp Ranger, then changing the pre-reqs might not be such a dumb idea anyway. If they actually make Rangers into Rangers, with recon and some combat skills.... then maybe they would just need the Hunting and Survival lines. (or whatever) I look forward to seeing what the devs plan on doing about this. I honestly don't think you Rangers deserve such a high SP cost with no benifits in combat. They did lower the cost of BH, but if I'm not mistaken, BH's are now more in-line, power wise, with other professions. And for the record... I don't agree with just reducing SP costs. I think they should overhaul the profession and make it work, not just make it easier on your template.
Goldear
Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:13 am
#22
We talk about the ranger as a hunter mostly. But we have forgotten the combat or "other " side of rangers. The Antarian rangers, in essence the left hand of the jedi in bygone years, somewhat allied to the rebel alliance after being hunted like the jedi were. We also forget the Sector rangers who worked for the Imperials as the rough equivilant ofcustom agents or lawmen. Devs have turned us into their version of a ranger not the SW version of a ranger. Sure we hunted etc. but we also had these other avenues open to us as well. Now we don't. We cannot help a jedi find anything due to spawn rates being increased, who wants us to find a krayt anymore? you can trip over them now.
We are now, under the CU, hunters with no real way of killing anything, i.e. we can only master 2 professions. The ideal roleplaying template for a ranger, was master rifle/master ranger is now gone due to lack of SP and above rule.
I have been a ranger/scout..and master ranger since I made this toon froma few months after launch. They are gutting the ranger profession in the last few months.
I would like the devsto answer a few questions.
As other mentioned here..what is our role in the Galactic war?
Howdo we huntwithout a viable template?
Why were spawn rates increased? It's turned my areatrack into a semi useless skill..creature appear and disappear with great regularity. just stand in one spot and area track for 2 minutes straight.
Why was the spawn rate of krayt increase to unimaginable levels? to quiet the masses of jedi who wouldn't pay us to find crystals?
It's getting to point where I am angry and I am going to post and post and post on this stuff until they listen.
if they don't ...I'm done.
DaveG
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:01 pm
#23
For the record I'm all for the pre-req's of ranger remaining as they are. I don't mind that I'm spending so many skill points, I'd just like to get a bit more value out of them.
Jolandir
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:58 pm
#24
SP is only one of the problems. I wouldn't have any problems with mastering Scout if we got fighting bonuses and defensive bonus and in Ranger got signature weapons and special moves to go with it. Because then we would be being treated equally with all the other fighting professions. You are correct Commando does not have to master marksman any more nor do BHs. And for the records BH's never had the trapping line in the first place so they never had any reason to complain about traps not working on NPCs and players in any case.
Jolandir
Nemo0
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:53 pm
#25
Jolandir wrote:SP is only one of the problems. I wouldn't have any problems with mastering Scout if we got fighting bonuses and defensive bonus and in Ranger got signature weapons and special moves to go with it. Because then we would be being treated equally with all the other fighting professions. You are correct Commando does not have to master marksman any more nor do BHs. And for the records BH's never had the trapping line in the first place so they never had any reason to complain about traps not working on NPCs and players in any case.Jolandir
Umm, BH used to be Master Marksman/Master Scout. So they did have the trapping line for a while after launch.
Ziege19
Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:40 pm
#26
JBMat wrote:Becoming a Ranger without being a Master Scout is stupid, pure plain and simple.These are the breaks. Don't act like a BH and whine and snivel. They got out of mastering Scout and now have zero argument for NPC traps. Buncha dumbazzes. Don't take the easy path, it's mined.I am level 80, have a triple master and 4 FS points. If and when I want to go Jed-eye and become a paddywan, I will first save up enough points to fill all 24 boxes at once. It's not a great sacrifice to not have the FS skills.I am proud that Ranger is staying one of the few (I think we are the only) professions requiring mastery of a basic profession.JB
No one is whining and sniveling. Some of just (stupidly, by your measure) don't like the idea of the biggest SP sink in the game - which should by rights be the most powerful combat profession in the game - being a glorified scout, helpless in combat.
Keeping it the highest SP profession is fine, if you want it to be the most powerful profession in the game. Personally, I can't think of anything that would ruin my fun playing a ranger faster than making the the class all the 'uber' kiddies flock to.
No whining, no sniveling, just rational, well thought out (imo) reasons why Ranger should have had the SP reduction at the same time that Doc, CM, etc did. I don't see anything to be proud about in having a vastly disproportionate SP requirement to combat power ratio.
Page 2 of 2