Ranger Archive
Thread: Some History on the Outdoorsman, as I see it.
NRaas complied our thoughts and made the Outdoorsman propsal as our document to the devs.
This isn't accurate. NRaas compiled his thoughts, and thoughts that he personally liked from others. He ignored a great deal of people who disagreed with his vision, and argued against many valid concerns by saying that it was his decision. What he then generated had his name on it, no mention that half the ideas came from the community, and no mention that those who looked critically at the proposal didn't agree with everything, especially the modular camp system.
Add to this the fact that he submitted the proposal without asking for any editing from the community and allowing for no more than a handful of posts on the topic's thread, this is not something that I think our community should rally behind. It's the pet project of NRaas and his personal vision. While it does include many topics that the vast majority of Rangers (who post here) agree on, it also includes quite a bit of items that need a lot more discussion before they should be submitted.
This does not mean we are going to rename the profession "Outdoorsman."
Then why was it called "The Outdoorsman"? Why did he replace "Ranger" with "Outdoorsman" in the first half of the document? Add to that, I could have sworn I read a post by NRaas that said he thought the profession's name should be changed.
I could be totally wrong about NRaas's intent with the name, but the way it's written it definitely suggests that he thinks the profession's name should be changed.
I'd love to see discussions open up on a new proposal, borrowing nothing from The Outdoorsman. A fresh start. If they read and like The Outdoorsman, they can read something new as well. Something that's up-to-date and less confusing. Something that's based on more thanone person's opinions.
Bihlbo wrote:
NRaas complied our thoughts and made the Outdoorsman propsal as our document to the devs.
This isn't accurate. NRaas compiled his thoughts, and thoughts that he personally liked from others. He ignored a great deal of people who disagreed with his vision, and argued against many valid concerns by saying that it was his decision. What he then generated had his name on it, no mention that half the ideas came from the community, and no mention that those who looked critically at the proposal didn't agree with everything, especially the modular camp system.
Add to this the fact that he submitted the proposal without asking for any editing from the community and allowing for no more than a handful of posts on the topic's thread, this is not something that I think our community should rally behind. It's the pet project of NRaas and his personal vision. While it does include many topics that the vast majority of Rangers (who post here) agree on, it also includes quite a bit of items that need a lot more discussion before they should be submitted.
This does not mean we are going to rename the profession "Outdoorsman."
Then why was it called "The Outdoorsman"? Why did he replace "Ranger" with "Outdoorsman" in the first half of the document? Add to that, I could have sworn I read a post by NRaas that said he thought the profession's name should be changed.
I could be totally wrong about NRaas's intent with the name, but the way it's written it definitely suggests that he thinks the profession's name should be changed.
I'd love to see discussions open up on a new proposal, borrowing nothing from The Outdoorsman. A fresh start. If they read and like The Outdoorsman, they can read something new as well. Something that's up-to-date and less confusing. Something that's based on more thanone person's opinions.
I seem to remember several threads floating around for quite some time before the Outdoorsman asking for thoughts about what our profession should be. I also seem to remember NRaas using ideas that he didn't really like because the community favored them. He also waited almost a full day (I think it was 17 hours or so) between posting it and submitting it. It also seems that the majority of people were in favor of the proposal (although some people still had a few problems with it most gave the general proposal their support). Even if some people disagree, the majority was in favor of the proposal. Waiting 3 months for you to respond is asking a bit much. Especially when NRaas is no longer even around to counter any argument you might have. I know you took part in the discussions during the crafting of the document and you weren't the happiest person around but why the sudden crusade against the idea? Why not post your objections to the idea when the person who wrote it could respond? Why wait so long to suddenly start pointing out all the flaws? We all know the document isn't perfect. It is there to show the Devs that we can have a profession that is not entirely creature hunting based while still keeping most of the tree similar to what is already there. I recommend reading NRaas's post where he describes the process to come up with the Outdoorsman. The Outdoorsman was never meant to change the profession name. It was to be the focus of the profession.
I present you all with a short narrative describing the apparent dev's vision, and current state of our profession:
The daring hunter made his way through the merciless shifting sands. The mid-day sun was relentless, however the ranger continued on, unwilling to stop his chase of the squill that had stolen a child from his village during the night. With a shift in the wind he could now smell the vile beast he had been following. Reaching into his pack the hunter retrieved his camo kit and applied it thoroughly.
Prepared for the worst the hunter climbed the dune that seperated him from the evil he'd finally found. As he reached the top his worst nightmares came to fruition, a lair of kreetles sunbathing and cracking jokes lined the valley which he now observed. Frantically he struggled for his datapad, praying he would remain unnoticed for the 15 seconds it took to call his old beaten up speeder. He could only watch in terror as the nearest kreetle looked directly at him with radar like accuracy, immediately sounding the kreetle alarm and in turn canceling the hunters bike call. As if things couldn't get any worse the squill he had been tracking appeared from another dune, curious as to what his kreetle brethren had found.
Try as he might his blaster only seemed to anger the kreetles more, resulting in more of them to come after him. Running out of options, the man grabbed a trap from his pack, hoping to buy himself a little time. Unfortunately his first throw missed the nimble creatures, and his second was caught in the maw of one of the beasts, swallowed whole. Accepting his fate the ranger started to think about all the things he could have been in life, why had being a ranger consumed him?
As his pursuers closed in his thoughts were distracted by the sound of a nearby swoop bike. It was -JaBBa -da-Butt a local bounty hunter. Although he had never cared for the gluttonous man-child he was relieved for he knew his pistol skills were sound. Yet -JaBBa did not run to his aid, he got off of his speeder and began to strap on the robotic-like armor the ranger had seen him wear while taking down his marks in the cantina. Angered, he knew at least the armor would help protect his rescuer, however he never had been able to afford such things. At this point the kreetles began to gnaw on his ankles, a very painful experience. It now became more effective for the ranger to drop his rifle and start kicking the mangy things. Holding on to his last shred of hope, -JaBBa had to be ready by now. But alas, he was sitting drinking some brandy and some pie looking food. Finally -JaBBa equipped his scatter pistol and killed every living creature in the area, including the squill with one shot.
Embarrassed yet relieved the hunter stood in silence as the bounty hunter ran up to him. -JaBBa began in the strange dialect he could barely interpret, "D00D 1337, | Pwn3d t3h c|24p 0|_|7 0f 7h3m!" He managed, "Yes, I'm very thankful you showed up, I was afraid I was done for." To which -JaBBa responded "w7fux im n0t s0m3 w3i|2do u fr33k but d00d i g0t s0m3 1337 m34t fr0m th3s3 things like 10000 units in h4lf 4n h0ur!"
The stunned hunter gaped at the number presented to him. It would have taken him an entire season to even coming close to matching -JaBBa's stock from one day. Sighing he could only say, "Next time, let the squill get me."
They ask us what we want the profession to be, but they'll obviously never do it. I'm downloading lineage 2 now.
That was a good laugh, but sadly all too true. Thanks for the chuckle, now I have to explain to me co-workers what a kreetle is.
CarpehNoctem wrote:
One hell of a story!
Bihlbo wrote:
I'd love to see discussions open up on a new proposal, borrowing nothing from The Outdoorsman. A fresh start. If they read and like The Outdoorsman, they can read something new as well. Something that's up-to-date and less confusing. Something that's based on more thanone person's opinions.
I vehemently disagree with the dev's 'vision', but I support the proposal simply because it has more insight than they would ever show towards the profession. At least it has a chance of getting implemented rather than dumped in the trash-bin.
That is history as I see it. Some speculation for those that want it:
Maybe his leaving was unrelated and I just want him to go out with a noble purpose, but has anyone considered the fact that maybe N'Raas left because he did not like the direction they were taking Ranger? He was probably as frustrated as the rest of us and organizing the Outdoorsman proposal could have been his final gift to those that remained. It certainly would not be out of character considering the work he put into being correspondant.
Bihlbo wrote:
NRaas complied our thoughts and made the Outdoorsman propsal as our document to the devs.
This isn't accurate. NRaas compiled his thoughts, and thoughts that he personally liked from others. He ignored a great deal of people who disagreed with his vision, and argued against many valid concerns by saying that it was his decision. What he then generated had his name on it, no mention that half the ideas came from the community, and no mention that those who looked critically at the proposal didn't agree with everything, especially the modular camp system.
Add to this the fact that he submitted the proposal without asking for any editing from the community and allowing for no more than a handful of posts on the topic's thread, this is not something that I think our community should rally behind. It's the pet project of NRaas and his personal vision. While it does include many topics that the vast majority of Rangers (who post here) agree on, it also includes quite a bit of items that need a lot more discussion before they should be submitted.
We spent a month going over the proposal, throwing ideas around and VOTING on which we liked. If NRaas i guilty of anyhting, it is putting every idea we had into the proposal. The one thing that was NRaas' own creation was the story line he used to propose the new ideas.
This does not mean we are going to rename the profession "Outdoorsman."
Then why was it called "The Outdoorsman"? Why did he replace "Ranger" with "Outdoorsman" in the first half of the document? Add to that, I could have sworn I read a post by NRaas that said he thought the profession's name should be changed.
I could be totally wrong about NRaas's intent with the name, but the way it's written it definitely suggests that he thinks the profession's name should be changed.
It was not named the Outdoorsman becuase we wanted to change the name. It was simply named The Outdoorsman as that was the direction we were focusing on. We will always be called Ranger, or they will remove the profession.
I'd love to see discussions open up on a new proposal, borrowing nothing from The Outdoorsman. A fresh start. If they read and like The Outdoorsman, they can read something new as well. Something that's up-to-date and less confusing. Something that's based on more thanone person's opinions.
Bihlbo wrote:
I'd love to see discussions open up on a new proposal, borrowing nothing from The Outdoorsman. A fresh start. If they read and like The Outdoorsman, they can read something new as well. Something that's up-to-date and less confusing. Something that's based on more thanone person's opinions.
again bihlbo, ease up. Our registration times are pretty similar if I remember mine about right, but I don't recall seeing you on these forums when the Outdoorsman was compiled as the experienced forum-rangers have mentioned from the entire community. Before you, there wasn't a person here that disliked it so completely, simply because the ideas were those of many people, and the preferred vision of our profession to match the dev's vision more closely then other potential possibilities like paramilitary stuff, preferred by the majority of these boards due to extensive community involvement and votes.
We of the community chose this, you don't like it. That's your choice, your right, your privilege. It is, however, not our problem. A well-spoken opinion with a decent set of points to back it up is always appreciated, untrue claims about the validity of our former 'baby' not so much.
And one last thing to lower myself a little, simply because I can't stop myself: come on man, stop making such a big deal about the frickin name! The Outdoorsman, it's not so bleedin terrible, so quit making it your main point against the entire thing!
righto, my opinion in a nutshell.
p.s. There's some stuff in the proposal I don't really like much, but as said, we should wait before making any dramatic changes.
