Ranger Archive
Thread: Discussion on the advocation of Creature enhancements vs. General enhancements to Rangers
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JuCat
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:13 pm
#1
How does it benefit a Ranger as a player for the profession to be relegated to a PvE only profession / Support profession?
What Support does a Ranger provide?
I honestly just don't get it, why anyplayer would want to be restricted to hunting down creatures, and filling meat orders for Doctors and BE's....
Message Edited by JuCat on 07-15-2004 02:05 PM
Bartholomew_Roberts
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:22 pm
#2
I'd consider being PvE oriented to be an advantage because I'm a fan of doing one thing only and doing it well. Unfortunately our profession needs some tweaking before we're the masters of our enviornment that you might expect a ranger to be. To me being PvE oriented means I also don't get people wanting to duel me every time i turn around. I have no use for PvP, that's for combat stackers. I want to explore and be one with the wilds. We aren't a combat profession so we're creative in how we support others. Our camps are nerfed to almost uselessness so they don't help much. Being able to keep a MOB blind and lower its defenses from a distance is very valuable to me. wouldn't you rather have someone blind the Kimo trying to eat you? I love being able to outrun nearly everyone else and most creatures. The reason it seems all we can do is fill orders is because our abilities are broken and/or underpowered right now. Before I forget, we also support by tracking stuff other people want to find. Ranger needs fixing, but I still love it.
dhcpSilicon
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:25 pm
#3
Also, remember that you've still got enough skill points at Master Ranger level to take an entire elite combat profession.
Look at it this way - weaponsmiths don't have any combat or support roles, only crafting. That appeals to some people. Other classes are obviously for PvP (Such as BH, though it's currently a bit gimpy) and others are purely support, such as Doc/CM. That's why they built the skill point system, so players could mix and match.
Vadis
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:47 pm
#4
/With Respect
Why do you feel that we as Rangers need to explain or justify anything to you?
Message Edited by Vadis on 07-14-2004 02:49 PM
Fodder650
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:49 pm
#5
All of our skills are aimed at supporting others. We are not supposed to be soloists primarily. Which is weird considering our number one skill, harvesting, loses 40% in a group. Which discourages us from it somewhat. But conceal is there to mask scent others. Rescue is a support skill. Even traps are there to add to add states to a target while costing combat moves that your main fighters do. Not all professions are meant to be solists and we are meant to be a grouped class. Even camps are meant for more then one person.
Fodder650
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:51 pm
#6
Vadis,
Its a simple question. How is it a flame against rangers? Treat it as a question and just answer it to the best of your ability. To say "With Respect" and follow it with your other line makes no sense.
Helpful forum remember? Safe zone from other places in game that are angry.
Vadis
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:56 pm
#7
Okay point takin, I guess the subject line rubbed me the wrong way.
No further comment.
Vorpaks
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:01 pm
#8
I don't think any of us want to be limited to being only a PvE profession. 
Being a support profession means we are kinda like squad leaders. We do not cause direct damage ourselves but we enable others to do so more efficiently. Before droids and being able to pull things out everywhere, camps were actualy a slightly viable place to launch and assault from, and to fall back to, during a PvP match.
Why even have a support role? Whats the use of it? Well, it makes the game more interesting and offers more options and the ability to be more strategic in your gameplay and in PvP. If you want to be more powrful you stack a bunch of combat professions. If you want to be more strategic and complex (more interesting in my opinion) you choose a support role.
We do not only support the combat professions, we support the crafting professions. I happen to like crafting so I am more interested in this aspect anyway. Who needs those PvP monsters anyways!
But you will find a lot of Rangers here who DO want a greater role in PvP combat and are dedicated advocates for those abilities.
Being a support profession means we are kinda like squad leaders. We do not cause direct damage ourselves but we enable others to do so more efficiently. Before droids and being able to pull things out everywhere, camps were actualy a slightly viable place to launch and assault from, and to fall back to, during a PvP match.Why even have a support role? Whats the use of it? Well, it makes the game more interesting and offers more options and the ability to be more strategic in your gameplay and in PvP. If you want to be more powrful you stack a bunch of combat professions. If you want to be more strategic and complex (more interesting in my opinion) you choose a support role.
We do not only support the combat professions, we support the crafting professions. I happen to like crafting so I am more interested in this aspect anyway. Who needs those PvP monsters anyways!
But you will find a lot of Rangers here who DO want a greater role in PvP combat and are dedicated advocates for those abilities.
Bartholomew_Roberts
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:16 pm
#9
Or look at it this way: In the U.S> army, there is a very small portion of soldiers who are combat arms. Nearly the whole army is support.
Flynn_Nomad
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:36 pm
#10
Funny you should ask about the role of the Ranger as a support profession...
I have been playing with the skill point calculators A LOT lately because of the BH changes, just out of curiosity, etc.
I played with "What can you be along with Ranger.."
Basically, the skillpoint calculations clearly point to Ranger AND Squad leader as professions that are intended to enhance other professions.
Ranger (or SL) basically makes you a really well rounded, Rifleman, Pistoleer or Carbineer.
Go mess with a few SP calculators and you will get a good feel of what the DEV's intended for SL and Ranger.
Rangers were never meant to stand alone.
ie. A Master Ranger Master Medic is possible, but, why? You would only have 33 sp's left and you couldnt kill a thing...
You could be a Master Ranger Master Squad Leader, lol, then what, you could tell the whole group that a Gurk has Herbivore meat, whoopie!
Again, Ranger (or SL) basically makes you a really well rounded, Rifleman, Pistoleer or Carbineer.
JBMat
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:02 pm
#11
PvP, as it is now, sucks.
Bring in line of sight, and some of the other balances, it will get better.
Who really wants to fight all the time - boring and expensive you ask me.
I don't mind being support. If you don't know how to support PvP being a Ranger, sucks to be you.
JB
and notice I was nice and did not say off to BH land with you either. Tho I was thinking it.
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:10 pm
#12
JuCat wrote:
How does it benefit a Ranger as a player for the profession to be relegated to a PvE only profession / Support profession?
Many professions do not have a direct role in PvP. They still contribute to PvP and if they actively PvP, they have a combat profession to help them along.
WildBil2Me
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:45 pm
#13
This is in response to Flynn_Nomad's post as well.
I too have been wondering what can be done to enhance the "support" role of ranger in regards to PVE. Not a terribly difficult thing I feel, just requires a bit of creativity and imagination. As Flynn_Nomad pointed out there are a number of implications that go hand in hand with the Skill Point situation.
I'm borrowing these numbers from one of my other posts as I did some thinking on this (Skill Point Value) in the past.
SP
- 77: Artisan, Brawler, Entertainer, Marksman, Medic, Politician, Scout (Novice)
- 92 : Architect, AS, Carbineer, Chef, DE, Fencer, ID, Merchant, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Rifleman, Swordsman, Tailor, TKA, Weaponsmith (Advanced)
- 106 : CH, Musician (Specialized)
- 121 : BE, Smuggler (Hybrid)
- 135 : Squad Leader (Hybrid)
- 140 : Doctor*, Ranger (Elite)
- 169 : BH, Commando, CM* (Advanced Hybrid)
The Red Professions are of course Combat professions. I added classes to make my argument before. But what's interesting is that Doctor is the only other profession that requires complete mastery of ONLY a novice profession. Essentially, as Docs are elite Medics, we are elite Scouts. If we could be compared to any profession, comparing us to Doctors (in effeciency and design) would be the most accurate.
Doctor's obviously are the best at the Medic field. Especially since CM has become a more combat oriented profession (pub 9.1 ramifications yet to be seen). The question therefore is... what role does Ranger, who's supposed to be the best in the Scouting field, have? How do you finish the Doc : Medic as Ranger : Scout thing?
Advanced combat professions?
I'm a master Rifleman / Ranger. Having mastery of one advanced combat profession DOES NOT make you ready for PvP. Yes it makes you viable, but you have to work a lot harder than those Defense stackers, State spammers, and All out brutes.
-WB
::Edit:: Grammar is your Friend WB.
Message Edited by WildBil2Me on 07-14-2004 06:47 PM
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