Ranger Archive

Thread: A matter of semantics...

Makkaio
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:17 pm
#1
Ah yes...but...it depends on who is defining the term. No one is wrong here. That is correct. However, the devs have defined in the first few paragraphs of the revamp documents exactly how they want the rangers in the game to be.



Makkaio

"Remember, it's not the game that sucks...it's you."
Olsson
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:28 pm
#2

Here's the problem in a nutshell. Copied and pasted directly from the "Ranger revamp: FAQ" thread posted by your correspondent:




  • Question: What is our new role?
  • Answer: Our new role depends entirely on your template as Ranger has become so mixable with other professions to make a unique template. Our main role as a single profession would have to be the Recon Unit, able to sneak around, gather intel lay lay down traps that are the envy of the military. Some of the main template rolesthat come to mind are?

    • Sniper: Rifleman/Ranger:Stealth movement, extraction and combat.
    • Rogue: Swordsman/Ranger: Melee DPS, Stealth movement and ability to jump opponements.
    • Recon Unit: Ranger/SL/Combat: Stealth movement, group enhancement and leadership aswel as intel gathering and target spotting.
    • Demolitions Expert: Commando/Ranger: Go in, place your mines and traps, move out and wait for the ticker to stop.
    • Wilderness Survivalist: Ranger/Scout/CH: Go into the wilders, hide from your enemy, trap them and aid from your companions.
    • Man Hunter: Ranger/BH: Get your mission, track down your mark, lay in wait to strike.
    • Pathfinder: SL Mobility/Ranger/Combat: Know the way, lead the way, make the way

Even your correspondent classifies Commandos as Demolitionists even though the Commando skills as they currently stand and as this revamp is plannedwould have absolutely nothing whatsoever to with any of the activities he's listed for that combination. Nothing.He instinctively did it because, from BETA, Commando has been slated to be the demolition expert "once it's fixed." As has been mentioned a million times by now, this is not a reflection on rangers it's a Reflection on the Devs having no idea what roles we really fill now that proffesions no longer exist and classes have taken their place. Givingthe rolethey've been promising Commandos to someone else is nothing less than a deliberate kick in the teeth.


CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:36 pm
#3




Olsson wrote:

Here's the problem in a nutshell. Copied and pasted directly from the "Ranger revamp: FAQ" thread posted by your correspondent:




  • Question: What is our new role?
  • Answer: Our new role depends entirely on your template as Ranger has become so mixable with other professions to make a unique template. Our main role as a single profession would have to be the Recon Unit, able to sneak around, gather intel lay lay down traps that are the envy of the military. Some of the main template rolesthat come to mind are?

    • Sniper: Rifleman/Ranger:Stealth movement, extraction and combat.
    • Rogue: Swordsman/Ranger: Melee DPS, Stealth movement and ability to jump opponements.
    • Recon Unit: Ranger/SL/Combat: Stealth movement, group enhancement and leadership aswel as intel gathering and target spotting.
    • Demolitions Expert: Commando/Ranger: Go in, place your mines and traps, move out and wait for the ticker to stop.
    • Wilderness Survivalist: Ranger/Scout/CH: Go into the wilders, hide from your enemy, trap them and aid from your companions.
    • Man Hunter: Ranger/BH: Get your mission, track down your mark, lay in wait to strike.
    • Pathfinder: SL Mobility/Ranger/Combat: Know the way, lead the way, make the way

Even your correspondent classifies Commandos as Demolitionists even though the Commando skills as they currently stand and as this revamp is plannedwould have absolutely nothing whatsoever to with any of the activities he's listed for that combination. Nothing.He instinctively did it because, from BETA, Commando has been slated to be the demolition expert "once it's fixed." As has been mentioned a million times by now, this is not a reflection on rangers it's a Reflection on the Devs having no idea what roles we really fill now that proffesions no longer exist and classes have taken their place. Givingthe rolethey've been promising Commandos to someone else is nothing less than a deliberate kick in the teeth.







Oh for fu....... Anyway, go in game and open up your skills page look at commando, see all those heavy weapons, your a heavy weapon specialist. You want traps or stealth then you have to have those prerequisites.


Just because it is called Commando doesnt mean you are going to be like a real world commando just as being a Ranger doesnt mean you are going to be Aragorn.






...has mastered the Pilot profession
The above post does not represent the views or beliefs of the poster, his countrymen or government, or anyone he remotely knows or has heard of, though in a perfect world he would be the government and his word law. The above post is also wholly fictitious, and any resemblance to any persons or entities living or dead is purely coincidental. Unless, it sounds really cool, in which case its all true, really.
Use the test centre avatar if you have any issues with the NGE or SOE, like me!
Owen-Lars
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:37 pm
#4
hey hey hey, im not the ranger corr dude



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Owen-Lars
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:39 pm
#5
And no i didnt say that commandos are demo experts, i said when you combine Ranger with Commando, then the template becomes a demo expert. Rangers bring the traps, commandos bring the heavy weapons.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Jaeryk
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:57 pm
#6




CuchulainnDarklight wrote:

Anyway, go in game and open up your skills page look at commando, see all those heavy weapons, your a heavy weapon specialist. You want traps or stealth then you have to have those prerequisites.


Just because it is called Commando doesnt mean you are going to be like a real world commando just as being a Ranger doesnt mean you are going to be Aragorn.
________________________________________________


Bingo! And dang semantics....I read 'mines' as booby-traps or jury-rigged C4 explosive charges to blow a door or bridge.


Well within the scope of SpecOps/Recon


Olsson
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:17 pm
#7

I don't want traps or stealth. I want the explosives that have been promised to us for over 2 years and are now being given to you even, when I "go in game and open up your skills page look at commando" I see a an entire tree devoted to EXPLOSIVES.



It's all about the explosives and the fact that's the role that's been promised to us since BETA. It would take me months of practice to care less about stealth or trapping. In fact I'd be perfectly happy if you guys got traps that implemeted states under the Anti-Personel Devises and Traps tree if we got mines and placed chrges that were straight high-damage explosives.


CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:33 pm
#8




Olsson wrote:

I don't want traps or stealth. I want the explosives that have been promised to us for over 2 years and are now being given to you even, when I "go in game and open up your skills page look at commando" I see a an entire tree devoted to EXPLOSIVES.



It's all about the explosives and the fact that's the role that's been promised to us since BETA. It would take me months of practice to care less about stealth or trapping. In fact I'd be perfectly happy if you guys got traps that implemeted states under the Anti-Personel Devises and Traps tree if we got mines and placed chrges that were straight high-damage explosives.






The mines and placed traps are stealthy things that you need stealth skills to place. You have explosives they are called grenades. Let Commandos have minefields but as they dont have stealth skills let the mines be visible to everyone and everything.


The other thing is Rangers have NO damage dealing AT ALL. The minefield is our only way of damaging things. If you say take up another profession to get damage dealing, then I say take up ranger to place minefields.


Compared to Ranger your broken profession plays like a dream, thats why your not getting a very warm welcome here. There are plenty of other games you can play where commandos arent heavy weapons types, but as SWG Commandos are heavy weapons types and not spec ops like a SW Ranger then you can forget the minefield.




...has mastered the Pilot profession
The above post does not represent the views or beliefs of the poster, his countrymen or government, or anyone he remotely knows or has heard of, though in a perfect world he would be the government and his word law. The above post is also wholly fictitious, and any resemblance to any persons or entities living or dead is purely coincidental. Unless, it sounds really cool, in which case its all true, really.
Use the test centre avatar if you have any issues with the NGE or SOE, like me!
Olsson
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:14 pm
#9

Tell you what. I typed out a nice long reply then realized it was all moot since, as long as SOE was trying to implement two very similiar classes (Heavy Commando and Light Commando) without a clear definiton of either there will never be agreement on who gets what job. Since where we disagree is only on a narrow spectrum, specifically explosive mines and the possibility of remotely detonatedexplosive charges, I'll bow out of this. Don't be surprised, however to find Commandos continuing to fight for anything that makes a huge explosion to be certed to us because thats what we've been promised from day one. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.



I am happy about you guys getting the other 90-95% of what appears to be coming your way.


Phenix1050
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:29 pm
#10

The difference between a heavy assault troop and a light assault troop is as big or small as you make it. In my mind, there is a fundamental difference, and just because the Ranger changes came first isn't to say that's the last we see of explosives. To me, there's two paradigms at work, and that's where the difference lies between the two professions.


Rangers see troops and they sneak up, place a few mines around them and wait for them to go off, before finishing them off. Commandos see enemy troops and fire a rocket launcher in the middle of them, then chucks a grenade, using explosive DURING the battle, rather than setting them up beforehand like a Ranger. Commandos place charges and blow holes in doors to enter a base, Rangers sneak up and steal the code from a guard. Rangers when in trouble, rely upon speed and stealth, commandos rely on being able to outlast and outdamage the enemy (idealy, not as they are now).


In the end, there could be a lot interesting differences between the two, so don't get hung up on the idea of things that go boom being all on your side of the fence. In the end, most Rangers will be right there rooting for Commandos to get their due, and to help promote some differences between the classes to make them unique.




PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003

This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
-JungleKing-
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:36 pm
#11
A Ranger is a master hunter. No matter what kind of Live Being he kill; he use skills like stealth, mobility and traps to achieve his hunts. This skills are natural skills.
The combination of that habilities, and the training in an Army Academy make him perfect to hide and recon in a military way, and prepare the terrain to survive (traps) and scape from a possible ambush. (like John Rambo, for example)

Well thats the first thing that came to mi mind when i hear "Ranger".

Message Edited by -JungleKing- on 09-20-2005 12:54 AM



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zzzzzzzzzzzzz "The Ranger" zzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzz TYPHOON Squadron Leader zzzzzz
zzzzzzzzz Rebel Alliance Captain zzzzzzzzzz

Almagill
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:38 pm
#12
If it was called Deirdre, would that make a difference?


Never was a fan of semantics m'self, preferred semiotics and a bit of sophistry



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Sojourner
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:57 pm
#13




Almagill wrote:
If it was called Deirdre, would that make a difference?


Never was a fan of semantics m'self, preferred semiotics and a bit of sophistry



I've meet a few women named Deirdre I'd like to call, but that's another thread entirely.


Well if you prefere semiotics Almagill:


The sophist view on knowledge and intelligence is fundementally flawed. Merely knowing information often times gives a false sense of true mastery in a subject. However, often facts, formulas, other such information is useless without the proper experience and problem solving skills that must be developed in concert with knowledge. Education is not simply the aquisition of knowledge, it is also learning how to use it to best effect.


Deal with that symbol boy!


And yes there is a paragraph in there.



Sojourner
---Navar Rook (Master Scout, Novice Ranger, Carbineer, Medic)
Wanderhome Galaxy
"Wanderhome Galaxy Fourms, you will never find a more wretched hive of narcissism and egotism. We must be cautious."
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