Ranger Archive
Thread: Entertainers in Need
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Nemo0
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:01 pm
#1
I'm not sure how many of you have seen this but I thought it was important enough to make sure you know about it. Buff bots have been getting at the keyboard entertainers banned for inviting them to groups so that the ATK(at the keyboard)players can share the xp (and get in on the buffing). It seems that an AFK buffer spamming in spatial is more important to the game than a hardworking, nice, ATK entertainer. This is wrong and needs to be changed (but supposedly won't be fixed until recursive macros go away--the sooner the better, in my mind).
The thread is here. Go show your support of the ATK players.
Edit: Gah, edited to make it go to the first page of the thread...
Message Edited by Nemo0 on 11-02-2004 09:11 PM
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:16 pm
#2
I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole! Are buff bots bad? Yes. Do I want macros or buffing changed such that on ATK players can perform them? Yes. Do I want to support Dancers that grief? Absolutely not. This whole business about AFK people can't be griefed doesn't hold water (yes, concealing AFK people who are autofighting the mobs around big cities is griefing). Think about how the ATK person got reported...there had to be someone around to do it. AFK people are using the game the way it was designed and until that design is changed, or there is an official 'do not use AFK macros' statement, the AFK macroers aren't violating any rules.
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:20 pm
#3
That is not to say that y'all can't support the Dancers on that thread.
Nemo0
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:26 pm
#4
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole! Are buff bots bad? Yes. Do I want macros or buffing changed such that on ATK players can perform them? Yes. Do I want to support Dancers that grief? Absolutely not. This whole business about AFK people can't be griefed doesn't hold water (yes, concealing AFK people who are autofighting the mobs around big cities is griefing). Think about how the ATK person got reported...there had to be someone around to do it. AFK people are using the game the way it was designed and until that design is changed, or there is an official 'do not use AFK macros' statement, the AFK macroers aren't violating any rules.
I'm not trying to support the griefers (well, maybe I am but not directly)--I'm trying to get the rules changed so that it is not griefing. All they need to do is make an official do not use AFK macros statement (maybe do not use AFK macros in public places? That way people can still use buff bots but they can't interfere with the normal players). It would make the game a lot nicer.
As it is, I understand how they feel--Squad Leaders get warned for spamming if they use their skills a bit too often in a public place. That's like telling a Rifleman that spamming strafeshot2 on a krayt is against the rules.
What they actually did might be wrong. But the reason they did it is still important. What they are doing is no different than using camo on an AFK fighter. Is it griefing? Yes. Is it a good cause? I think so. Reward players for playing, not for letting their computer stay on all day.
Why is it so hard for the Devs to just make AFK play not work or not allowed? Why can't we support people in the fight to get it done?
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:28 pm
#5
Nemo0 wrote:
Why is it so hard for the Devs to just make AFK play not work or not allowed? Why can't we support people in the fight to get it done?
I think there is a reason why the devs haven't made a statement against AFK play....yet. Also, I never said you couldn't support anyone...
SolrFlare
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:42 pm
#6
I've never been a fan of the afk play myself. But, it would be a pretty signifigant change to the game adjusting how macros work. It would change the way a lot of people play the game and cause a lot of re-adjusting in how you approach things. It would...hey, this kind of sounds familiar....just a guess mind you from someone with no info but reads between the lines a lot and has been in this game long enough to follow development trends 
Nemo0
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:49 pm
#7
They could just make a ten minute limit to any macro chain. I don't see how that would cause people that much trouble. Needing to hit an extrakey or type an extra command once every ten minutes seems quite reasonable to me. And it gets rid of the problem. Then anyone who AFKs for a whole day is breaking the terms of use (as they would need a third party program to do so). And it can't be that hard to put a 10 minute timer on a macro chain (well, it would be hard but not THAT hard).
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:51 pm
#8
Nemo0 wrote:They could just make a ten minute limit to any macro chain. I don't see how that would cause people that much trouble. Needing to hit an extrakey or type an extra command once every ten minutes seems quite reasonable to me. And it gets rid of the problem. Then anyone who AFKs for a whole day is breaking the terms of use (as they would need a third party program to do so). And it can't be that hard to put a 10 minute timer on a macro chain (well, it would be hard but not THAT hard).
Yes, but do the Devs have the time right now to make that change. I have learned that there is no such thing as an easy change.
Nemo0
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:58 pm
#9
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Nemo0 wrote:
They could just make a ten minute limit to any macro chain. I don't see how that would cause people that much trouble. Needing to hit an extrakey or type an extra command once every ten minutes seems quite reasonable to me. And it gets rid of the problem. Then anyone who AFKs for a whole day is breaking the terms of use (as they would need a third party program to do so). And it can't be that hard to put a 10 minute timer on a macro chain (well, it would be hard but not THAT hard).
Yes, but do the Devs have the time right now to make that change. I have learned that there is no such thing as an easy change.
But should the Devs make the time to make the change? The time is always there. They just need to choose what is most important. Personally, playing the game should be a top priority. They just don't like that from a business sense. But, if they wait for the Combat Balance, will enough entertainers be left to know the difference?
darmokVtS
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:53 pm
#10
The whole "death to all afk play" topic is a problematic one to say it carefully...
With the end of the holocraze the npc city cantinas have seen a HUGE reduction of entertainers performing there and most of the time I go to one none of the 5-10 entertainers that are actually in theed on eclipse in my prime game time are ATK...
I do know that the ATK entertainers have been driven out of those cantinas because of all the afk holotainers, however that damage is done and even with the cantinas being no longer jampacked with afk'ers I see no sign of ATK entertainers coming back.
Remove the AFK-ability of the entertainer profession and say hello to having a really hard time to remove your bf outside peak-hours (unless you are lucky enough and have an alt that is entertainer you probably will have to drop something like novice medic and get novice entertainer just to very slowly remove your own bf)
With the end of the holocraze the npc city cantinas have seen a HUGE reduction of entertainers performing there and most of the time I go to one none of the 5-10 entertainers that are actually in theed on eclipse in my prime game time are ATK...
I do know that the ATK entertainers have been driven out of those cantinas because of all the afk holotainers, however that damage is done and even with the cantinas being no longer jampacked with afk'ers I see no sign of ATK entertainers coming back.
Remove the AFK-ability of the entertainer profession and say hello to having a really hard time to remove your bf outside peak-hours (unless you are lucky enough and have an alt that is entertainer you probably will have to drop something like novice medic and get novice entertainer just to very slowly remove your own bf)
darmokVtS
Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:01 pm
#11
Nemo0 wrote:
But should the Devs make the time to make the change? The time is always there. They just need to choose what is most important.
And they did make a decision. JTL > Combat Revamp > GCW Revamp > Smuggler > ... > Ranger > .. (etc pp)
And tbh, I DO agree with this (mostly), I'm clearly no fan of AFK play but there are quite a bunch of things to do that are imho MUCH more important for the overall state and future of the game than the removal of the current afk-ability of the entertainer professions (especially with the side effect that I expect, near to no chance to get rid of bf outside peak hours even on servers with "heavy" population as eclipse, naturally this effect will hit the smaller servers much harder)
Vorpaks
Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
#12
I was personally just amazed at the amount of effort the CSR went through to cite the person. Tracked down his IP address and compared it to the IP addresses of other accounts to find all the guys accounts and cite them all? Yikes! *shivers* A good reason to never let anyone use your PC period.
I wish they would go through that much effort to stop sexual harrassers and stalkers.
I wish they would go through that much effort to stop sexual harrassers and stalkers.
Almagill
Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:37 pm
#13
Not going to get into the whole AFK is bad / oh no it's not argument, but... how do you know the buffbot IS AFK?
I've db'd somebody who thought it was funny to challenge the afk ent to a duel, don't feel bad about it and I'd do it again. Yep, I had my afk light on. Yep, I was buffing (very badly cos it still takes me ten minutes on both music and dance). So, to all intents and purposes I looked like a buffbot, but was very much alive and well and atk.
(I'd not mind, but my dancer's got the highest pvp rating of any of my toons, lol)
I've db'd somebody who thought it was funny to challenge the afk ent to a duel, don't feel bad about it and I'd do it again. Yep, I had my afk light on. Yep, I was buffing (very badly cos it still takes me ten minutes on both music and dance). So, to all intents and purposes I looked like a buffbot, but was very much alive and well and atk.
(I'd not mind, but my dancer's got the highest pvp rating of any of my toons, lol)
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