CUEmu - Thread Posts

Gilmith

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:55 am

I have been following this discussion closley, and was very happy to see all the support that Nraas had gathered around the "Outdoorsman". Overall the discussion looked real good and then I found this:

Purposal: Removal of RANGER profession. Put beter traps at SCOUT level. Make SQUAD LEADER based off of Master Scout. Move tracking to Bounty Hunter. Give camps and rescue feature to Squad Leader. Increase harvesting levels when grouped with Squad Leader. Rename MASTERSCOUT to RANGER

In addition, removal of Ranger profession will open room for Droid Handler Prof.

Sorry, but I still have not seen any other proposal that REALLY defines a RANGER as other that a glorified scout. Without the abillity to use the enviroment to our advantage(invisible to the naked eye) or to see the HIDDEN enemy, we are useless. Running and Crawling around in the wilderness has been made obsolete.

Without a usefull, MAJOR revamp (talk to GREEN MARINE for good ideas) the profession is weak and useless.

By a poster named Nerj

I'll let you all flame as you see fit, but this is a call for the games greatest nerf yet. I'm not sure we're that broken....Anyone who has stuck around this long must agree with that.YesI know were all entitled to our opinions, but I wanted to single this one out to see what the Ranger community as a whole thought.

Bera Bear'ano Master Ranger- Master Pistoleer ~Valcyn

Gilmith

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:57 am

#2

Forgot this part

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_concept&message.id=18&page=5

DWolfe

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:20 pm

#3

Idiotic.

I notice that several posts followed his, but none paid it any heed.

Fitting. His post is without value, so should be given consideration equal to it's value: none.

Ignore it.

::goes off to read the Outdoorsman proposal again.. each time he does, it gets him psyched all over again about what a Ranger can be::

~Daracca of Valcyn
Corellian Defense Front - Information Officer
Rifleman - Shoot straight, conserve ammo, and never cut a deal with a Hutt.
Master Ranger - Come with me, and I'll show you the world.

NRaas

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:29 pm

#4

"Ignore it."

Agreed.Or post a constructive reply about why the idea has no merit.

Such a radical move would never fly... It would be more effort to remove the profession than it would be add to what already exists.

I mean...

What would happen to all the time, effort, and hard earned experience we have spent already?

How wouldexisting experience translate into a new system?

Where would all the existing functionality go? It could not all go intoa starter profession.

The poster is probably just rattling chains to get attention... And he got it.

Ranger Threads
State of the Profession
The Outdoorsman
(please refresh once you arrive to receive the latest version)

Makkaio

Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:46 pm

#5

I HATE the flogging statement, "Just a glorified scout."!!!!!! You know what? Scramjet brain is right. And he hasa knack for stating the obvious. Ifhe want to be close-minded and look at it that way. Let me reiterate that a bounty hunter is nothing but a glorified marksman with an irritating investigation tree to deal with, pistoleer is a glorified pistol line marksman, and all of the elite artisan trees are glorified crafting professions. Duh! You know what, I like being a ranger because I liked being a scout.I was going to be a bounty hunter, but I didn't like working up the marksman tree as much as I enjoyed scout. I'm not trying to diminish any of the other professions at all. But man! Stupid, bloody...

Makkaio

"Remember, it's not the game that sucks...it's you."

JBMat

Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 pm

#6

So it's agreed, we ignore the moron and he will go away.

What if he don't... well, he best keep his ingame name secret.

JB

8) behind the smiling eyes lurks the heart of an assassin

AgonThalia

Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:12 pm

#7

I think that while this poster expresses the frustration that we have all felt (to one degree or another) the implementation of that proposal, like NRaas said, more problematic than what we currently have.

I do not consider myself a glorified scout (mostly because of the way I play rather than the skills that I have).

I do not want to lead a squad into battle (but I will use what skills I have to ensure success).

I do now want to lose tracking to the bounty hunters, they have droids, and that is far more fitting to their class than the way we examine the environment.

The paramilitary aspect of the character does not lie in the title of Ranger, but in the combat profession that you choose to supplement ranger with and the way you play your character.

I knew when I signed up for "Ranger" that I was not going to be an Army Ranger, but a master huntsman, a protector/ exploiter of the natural environment.

I appreciate the poster's ideas and at times I feel the same frustration, however, this Ranger community is too valuable and the rangers in game are far too valuable to lose.

Draknev
The Last Ranger Correspondent
Subterfuge and Sabotage, Concealment and Camouflage:
Colonel: Rebel Alliance

Telephius

Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:34 pm

#8

The problem is you can;t just throw a whole bunch of higher end stuff into a novice profession even if that higherened stuff doesn't make the elite profession full worthwhile. The Novice professions are just that Novice which means they have the basic skill to either be a stepping stone to an elite version of themselves or to allow people you are already elite in one area have some basic skill in another. Plus if we gave scouts all our abilities we would possibly be in the same boat we are now just maybe not as deep. I say this because right now the Ranger class is slight higher skilled in things that scouts do so if we just thow all the old stuff into the lower profession and just take the newer stuff the balance would still be bottom heavy. I mean we want new things to add on and excel at as we want to be sought after.

I mean we should make the Ranger-'carrot on the end of a stick' as big and juicy as we can so people will higky want to hire us or even be us. If you give them half the carrot now they may just say well I only really needed the half the carrot you gave me you can keep the rest I will go spend the rest of my money on an apple.

Telephius Surtalga
-De Oppresso Liber *DOL* Sunrunner.
-Rebel
-Master Ranger, Rifleman 4/3/3/3 Marksman 4/0/0/4

NRaas

Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:58 pm

#9

"The Novice professions are just that: Novice"

Agreed. Scout is a well rounded Novice profession already. Throwing even more content into it would unbalance everything.

Scouts would be able to get more for their skill points then every other novice profession, because they would be receiving the skills that were initially meant for an elite profession.

Remember that piling more stuff into Scout also escalates Creature Handler, Squad Leader, and Bounty Hunter, further throwing off the balance.

I know... Many Rangers don't consider the skills we have to be worthy of an Elite profession.

But that does not mean they should be given to a Novice Profession, instead they should be enhanced to be worthy of the skill point cost.

Ranger Threads
State of the Profession
The Outdoorsman
(please refresh once you arrive to receive the latest version)

Takei_Urawaza

Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:11 pm

#10

Thats the point isn't it.. there _isn't_ anything in ranger (bar perhaps the advanced tracking and the fact that big camps do look cool) that's worthy of being that carrot at the end of scout..

this board is proving it by all the posts that keep appearing saying the class has such limited use (granted I probably contributed to a couple of those...)

You look over the SOTP for ranger that NRass keeps and then add to that the advanced trapping, advanced camping and and advanced camoflage threads the community got together, then tell me that those alone wouldn't make a big enough carrot for scouts to go ranger for.

Add to that some combat bonuses that give us an edge with what ever combat profession you've chosen to be "your thing" (melee or ranged what evers your fancy) to turn a relatively good allround combat profession to have an edge in creature combat and you will have a class worthy of the name ranger, and I'm sorry to say it but with ranger as it currently stands we are NOT in that happy place.

and think on this a bit too.. to be a ranger you have to be a master scout.. so what would you say does giving something to scout looserangers ?

Takei Urawaza,

"Healthy people don't invent crutches."

eelektrik

Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:12 pm

#11

NRaas wrote:

Remember that piling more stuff into Scout also escalates Creature Handler, Squad Leader, and Bounty Hunter, further throwing off the balance.

Personally, I could understand Creature Handler having some of our abilities, and to a lesser extent, Squad Leader... But Bounty Hunter, Id eliminate the scout requirement, but make the Bounty Hunter skills cost more skill points so it takes nearly as much skill points to master bounty hunter and marksman, as it currently does BH, Marksman, and scout. Mainly so that Bounty Hunters dont get so much harvesting abiliity, although, the other option is to make Scouts harvest alot less, and Rangers harvest alot more.

I also thing Rangers should be able to harvest higher quality resources then scouts, scouts should get a penalty to the quality of their organics, Rangers should get a bonus the quality of the resources. Making Rangers harvest more, and better, organics then the countless scout people that only have it as a prerequisite for BH or CH...

Lorell

Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:13 pm

#12

Well said Takei!

Sneaky Scout, Captain of Scoundrel's Luck

Rifleman, Marksman, and CH

S-MART General Supply of Tatooine

Our location is in Mos Tyrenia right next to the Shuttleport.
Waypoint 5685, 4584

Remember to shop smart...shop S-MART!

Haden Blackman: "Yeah, all the guys who are happy with everything are playing the game. They aren't spending their time sending you guys letters or posting on the forums."

Takei_Urawaza

Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:48 pm

#13

Creature handlers,squad leaders being able to crawl faster to me doesn't sound so much like putting them out of ballence more giving them skills that they should have had to start with.

If Squad Leaders then because of there group terrain/burst run start making groups of people run, swim and burst better that are grouped with them that doesn't so much sound like putting the ballence out, more like make them act like a squad leader (forced march/motivation)

creature handlers crawling faster to me sounds like just good practice as sneeking up on creatures standing up to jab them with needles is just asking to get spotted. It Makes Sence.

bounty hunters learning the basics of tracking (ie: just animals) to me doesn't seem out of ballence either ? it's a perk, ok fine don't include direction but this is Master Scout we're talking about I don't think it's out of character.

you said "novice" Professions as welll .. bear in mind that the "novice" part is box number 1 we're talking about "master" and rank 4 abilities here just becuase you have to get through the profession first to get to an elite one doesn't mean you should just devalue the profession..

and giving area effect traps to BH's serves no purpose.. they can't be used on humanoids anyway can they ? we don't use them as master rangers .. what makes you thikn they'll do anything to the ballence of the bounty hunter class, they're already a better creature killer than a master ranger + master marksman.

They get propper weapon skills and some very nice specials with state effects already built in..

you are of course right .. just because something isn't worthy of an eite profession doesn't mean it should be "thrown to the dogs" (and by that I mean no slur on the scout profession, I use it just as a throw away expression)

But considering just how much has been collated from the forum in the SOTP and the .. well quite litterally total rewrite of the trapping/camping and camoflage skills and how they work, you've already rewritten the profession, The only thing left is the cut away the final bits that are hanging on from the old class to allow even more growth in the ranger class in the future.

We've already written the new ranger but we're to scared to let go the old.

Takei Urawaza,

"Healthy people don't invent crutches."

Ranger Archive

Thread: A (radical) Post from the concept development forum...