Ranger Archive
Thread: Master Ranger is SP robbery.
Hello fellow masters and would be rangers, I'm in need of a little help with something..
I am a stack hunter , a mobile harvestor if you will , providing organics to the highest bidder just like the rest of you no doubt. Ok , so I was looking at the template for my character and my buisness and was thinking that I was missing out on alot by having my master ranger skill.. Unfortunately I am going to drop this, as good as being a master ranger is it's just not economically viable to keep skills which I don't use.. I had a shuffle and here is what I came up with..
:: Current template in progress (0/250sp left over) ::
*Combat professions.
- Novice Brawler + Unarmed I-IV ( 29sp )
- Teras Kasi Master ( 63sp )
* Support professions.
- Master Scout ( 77sp )
- Novice Creature Handler + Training I-III ( 18sp )
- Master Ranger ( 63sp )
:: Proposed template (0/250sp left over) ::
* Combat professions.
- Novice Brawler + Unarmed I-IV ( 29sp )
- Teras Kasi Master ( 63sp )
* Support professions.
- Master Scout ( 77sp )
- Novice Ranger + Bio Science I-III ( 18sp )
- Master Creature Handler ( 63sp )
So all I have done here is basically switched the skills from ranger to ch and kept just the hunting, creature knowledge and tracking bonuses.. I had to then look at the three skill trees , partial skill tree and mastery bonuses which I gained in the ranger lines that I am going to drop and here is a brief summary with my own opinion on each and why it is useless to me as a hunter..
* Master Ranger...
- Terrain negotiation +5
- Camouflage +10
- Camping +5
- Foraging +5
- Creature harvesting +10
- Creature Knowledge +10
- Trapping +10
- Rescue +10
- Ranged defense +10
- Melee defense +10
- Dathomir camo kit
Here we see only four of the skills granted by master ranger actually being of any use in my eyes.. Creature harvesting and knowledge are the cornerstone of my buisness and I am sorry to lose these bonuses, also the ranged and melee defense bonuses are nice but not necessary with my Teras Kasi skills.. The rest is useless to me as I have already justified dropping the lines they relate to below , so read on.
* Field Bioscience IV Hunting Mastery Skill...
- Creature knowledge +10
- Creature harvesting +10
- Creature to-hit bonus +5
- Area track : players
The hardest choice in this whole swap was just this one skill, nothing else.. The bonuses here combined with the loss on my mastery will mean I lose +20 in harvesting and +20 in knowledge, this will definately effect my harvesting abilities.. The to-hit bons doesn't matter to me as I am melee.. The tracking of players is a very usefull skill indeed and losing that would hurt a bit, I have used it to scout out many a hostile area when I have had a TEF and managed to evade detection by overt members of the opposing faction.. But when all is said and done I can't justify keeping a couple of bonuses and basically an extended radar instead of dropping a skill worth two points and pumping those points into mastering my other newly chosen profession.
* The Frontiering Habitat Engineering line...
- High Tech Field Base Kit
- Field Base Kit
- Camping + 40 (total)
- Forage + 40 (total)
Ok here is the easiest line to justify dropping in my eyes I am going to be keeping part of my ranger hunting tree so I know I can always make a camp from the scout profession skills I have, the field bases are very nice to look at but serve no real purpose and I can now call my vehicle or pet in the wild without a camp so I don't even need to use the ones in my scout skills unless I am say healing wounds or something. I don't forage for goods as there is nothing worth foraging , the mini-buffs you get from food dont last long and only effect the main ham bars not the sub stats, you generally cant find a decent food and I think the onion if the only thing I keep when I find it.. On a lighter not I really have no way of telling if I am a better forager as a master ranger than I am when I am a master scout.. The best and only thing to come out of this line for me was the first time I built a HTFB.
* The Advanced Trapping Mastery line...
- Rescue ability
- Flash bomb trap
- Sonic pulse trap
- Rescue + 40 (total)
- Trapping + 40 (total)
All completely useless to me , I generally hunt solo and therefore have no real reason to use the rescue skill at all. I never use the two traps available in this line and never use the scouting traps as with my TK skills I can get almost the same status effects and frankly the only way I would probably ever use a trap on a creature is to use a glow wire trap from the max trapping distance to lure a single enemy closer to my position and dropping its combat def in the process.. Of course this ability is just completely blown away with the creature handler I propose to put into my template as a creature can lure, hit, and be used as a mount which is nice..
* The Wayfaring Exploration Mastery line...
- Conceal ability
- Camo kits for Tatooine, Naboo, Corellia, Talus, Rori, Yavin IV, Dantooine, Lok, Endor.
- Terrain negotiation + 40 (total)
- Camouflage + 40 (total)
Ok , a little harder to justify dropping than trapping or frontiering is the wayfaring line as the terrain negotiation in this line is a nice bonus, however with Teras Kasi Master under my belt I don't think I am going to be doing much running and my terrain negotiation bonuses don't apply to vehicles and mounts so unless I run everywhere I am not going to feel the benefits much.. The conceal and camo kits however are 100% useless to me as is camouflage, I have no need to hide and generally I only mask scent and things like that to avoid smaller creatures with a small organics drop like kreetles... I can avoid mobs when i see them at 128m on my radar its really quite simple.
So where does that leave me now ? well it leaves me with just three skills on harvesting which is where I make my money.. if I put everything I just surrendered on to the creature handler profession it gives me this.
* The Complete Master Creature Handler line...
- Tame ability
- Store ability
- Follow ability
- Attack ability
- Stay ability
- Guard ability
- Patrol ability
- Formations ability
- Trick1 ability
- Trick2 ability
- Group ability
- Follow other ability
- Friend ability
- Train mount ability
- Enbolden pets ability
- Enrage pets ability
- Ranged attack ability
- Transfer ability
- Taming wild creatures +50
- Taming vicious creatures +50
- Aditional pets +2
- Stored pets +21
- Max level of pets +70
In exchange for what is effectively..
* Master Ranger Skill / Field Bioscience IV Hunting Mastery Skill combined to...
- Area track : players
- Creature knowledge +20
- Creature harvesting +20
- Ranged defense +10
- Melee defense +10
I wont go into why I think that just about every single one of these is better than the abilities I plan to surrender but I will give you a few brief ones.. I can use pets to tank up damage and lure when hunting, I can train mounts and sell them for money and I can do the same with normal creatures, i lose defense bonuses i don't need , the ability to track players is a bonus not a requirement and I only lose +20 to harvesting and knowledge.. I can supliment the loss of my +20 to harvesting using veghash based on the information I found on the forums, I have never actually used any but the stats appear to be somewhere in the region of +14.55 to harvesting for 11m .. Now I think you can get higher but eating a portion of this stuff drops what I lost on harvesting from +20 to +5.45 which is nothing really and in 11m with top TKM skills and MCH skills I should be able to bring down a whole lair without a problem, with buffs I might squeeze in two lairs who knows.. After all that I can get my bike out without a camp and store my pet knowing I can get it back out with a 15s delay without using a camp aswell any time I like..
:: My question ::
I think personally I am being ripped off with my Master Ranger tag and people have got it wrong in saying our bonuses suck compared to master scouts.. Our whole professional mastery is a joke in comparsion to someone who dabbles. There are alot of excellent ideas on this board regarding changes to our profession and many people trying to justify master ranger as a working and usefull profession. The truth is that since I started the game and mastered ranger I have been just that , an underpowered harvestor with bonuses to useless skills with the honour of having a master ranger tag.. If the changes such as the modular camp system and lure traps were to come in to play it may make this whole profession worth the SP.
Please prove me wrong here.. I would like to stay a ranger but don't think I can justify waiting on a promise of dev lovin' sometime in the future and sticking through the various updates which will need to be done if the profession changes when other professions are within my reach right now. If you guyscan help meout and rekindle my love for this profession thenmy faith will be restored , if not I am dropping it like a shot because I'm sure with the proposedtemplate I will be much more powerfull and be able to make alot more money..What I am trying to establish is this basically which template is better..
Do you think a Master Ranger / TKM / CH 0/3/0/0 is better than a Ranger 0/0/3/0 / TKM / MCH ?
Ok,
I presume that you are talking about "stealth" from what I have seen on your recent posts.. Which is fine, if I actually needed to hide, but I don't. As I said I'm a stack hunter and my template is not designed to be effective in PvP/GCW combat it's meant to be a good stackhunter..
I understand that you may want additions to the ranger profession and this "stealth" (when I get round to reading all your older posts) may be a good idea.. But I am talking right here, right now.. Without the 'promise' of development of the profession which may make it more usefull for PvP/GCW purposes what exactly do the hunters get in return for their SP and is master ranger actually worth it?..
Ranger shouldnot be a combat class and as it standsI don't think that a master ranger is as effective a hunter as one who dabbles. I'm trying to see if people have another spin on the current profession , not possible improvements which may take months to be implemented and when they do get into the game may not work correctly or may notbe exactly what was discussed and promised to the community. If people do have something viable to say about the current state of our profession which would disprove my theory that its just a complete waste of time, exp and sp when there is another elite stem just down the road then I will listen...
If not then I know where my path lies, and it isn't waiting for developers to make improvements which may not even be worth waiting and payingfor as they would not benefit the way I play the game.
PS: Not badmouthing your idea , it just wouldnt make any difference to me at all when i hunt creatures would it ? Plus I checked some threads out and the ranger corr at the time the stealth idea was floating around said that the devs were not looking into making a ranger invisible to other players..
You will outstrip my harvests faster than I can recover from an incap. Therein lies the problem that you and Fred have both hit upon.
Master Ranger needs to be worth it in terms of both skills vs. points and enjoyment. Right now, the balance (for me) lies heavily on the enjoyment since the skills I have arent up to my expectations or the description of Ranger in the SOE book. Master Ranger fits the way I play and I have a lot of fun doing it.
That for me is the most important part.
With that said, you brought up the crux of this particular argument. The game doesnt leave much in right now for tactics and finesse. All you have to do is get the most damage on a critter and you win. Rangers dont have that ability, we have the quality (in terms of skill mods in harvesting) but not the quantity of damage output.
BountyBlunter wrote:
:: My question ::
I think personally I am being ripped off with my Master Ranger tag and people have got it wrong in saying our bonuses suck compared to master scouts.. Our whole professional mastery is a joke in comparsion to someone who dabbles.
I doubt anyone will disagree with you there.
Do you think a Master Ranger / TKM / CH 0/3/0/0 is better than a Ranger 0/0/3/0 / TKM / MCH ?
The latter is definitely more powerful, no doubt about it. This is a no-brainer. To me, if you are looking at this "by the numbers" I doubt there is any justification at all for going ranger, even 0-0-3-0 ranger. I posted some findings in another thread which demonstrates that harvesting of hunting 4 vs tracking 4 is only 30% difference. So hunting 4 vs tracking 3 would be even less, especially since you get a big boost at hunting 4.
You could very easily save yourself even more skill points by dropping say all the camping from scout and trapping from scout, and the master scout box and put all that into more combat or medical skills and you'd be an even better hunter imho.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 03-18-2004 10:19 AM
GoldMemberBria wrote:
BountyBlunter wrote:
:: My question ::
I think personally I am being ripped off with my Master Ranger tag and people have got it wrong in saying our bonuses suck compared to master scouts.. Our whole professional mastery is a joke in comparsion to someone who dabbles.
I doubt anyone will disagree with you there.
Do you think a Master Ranger / TKM / CH 0/3/0/0 is better than a Ranger 0/0/3/0 / TKM / MCH ?
The latter is definitely more powerful, no doubt about it. This is a no-brainer. To me, if you are looking at this "by the numbers" I doubt there is any justification at all for going ranger, even 0-0-3-0 ranger. I posted some findings in another thread which demonstrates that harvesting of hunting 4 vs tracking 4 is only 30% difference. So hunting 4 vs tracking 3 would be even less, especially since you get a big boost at hunting 4.
You could very easily save yourself even more skill points by dropping say all the camping from scout and trapping from scout, and the master scout box and put all that into more combat or medical skills and you'd be an even better hunter imho.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 03-18-2004 10:19 AM
Ok, its true, it is a no brainer - but I just wanted to make sure everyone was signing the same tune, seems we are... I made the comparison between the two templates here for one reason and one alone, to demonstrate the complete lack of an elite profession being elite.
I thought about ditching ranger totally aswell and just keeping the scouting line but I think that I would like to have at least some of my roots left after my change. Thanks for the advice though, disappointing and against the ranger profession as it is, I really think if I did go scout 0/0/4/0 the money would keep rolling in and you are totally right. So, I can pretty much say this is more a gravstone that a thread and its mine as a master ranger.
The community is by far the best one I have seen and you guys post nothing but quality ideas and feedback. It's just a shame that no-one seems to be listening..
I noticed on another thread a mention of a harvesting strike until something was done about the ranger profession, this is a very good idea and I would say that a period of a few weeks or a month would be enough for people to start screaming out for resources, and if it happens count me in..
Let this post drop in to obscurity, I made it just to demonstrate things you have already stated elsewhere countless times and wanted to show my support for the gripes other rangers have about our profession.. Also I made it to prove that a Creature handler can be a better harvestor than a master ranger, which is just plain wrong.
We should outclass everyone else as far as hunting goes, and it should be by a long way, its unfortunate that everyone else can excel in our field and surpass our level when they are far short of master..
So , in conclusion guys I might be dropping mastr but not because I don't want to be a ranger, because I think that lovin' we seem to have been promised is nothing but a cold shoulder. You all have my full support when we get a new correspondant and im sure that if we all scream as loud as the NERF criers we will get what we want eventually. Just wish i could shout louder!
BountyBlunter wrote:
So , in conclusion guys I might be dropping mastr but not because I don't want to be a ranger, because I think that lovin' we seem to have been promised is nothing but a cold shoulder. You all have my full support when we get a new correspondant and im sure that if we all scream as loud as the NERF criers we will get what we want eventually. Just wish i could shout louder!
i'm master pistoleer with 0 0 4 0 ranger, artisan 4 0 1 4, novice medic
i will be master pistoleer, 0 0 40 ranger, artisan 0 0 4 4 , and with the rest im' not sure.
easy killing, lots of harvesting, and then i can place it on a vendor with the other resources i can look up with survey 4.
As far as hunting goes, you don't even need Master Scout. Have a look here to see what happens when you send a Novice Scout out hunting with a Master Ranger. It's not pretty. As far as CH goes, you might want to consider another combat profession instead. As it is, you will only be able to do kinetic damage. And there are 100% kinetic creatures out there (Malkloc Plainswalkers come to mind). And many more with just regular high kinetic resists. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it might be good to have a secondary damage type just for high kinetic resist creatures (possibly take MCH and Scout 4/0/4/0 and use the extra skill points to pick up a bit of an extra combat profession).
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Morik wrote:
Obviously you arent someone who truly loves our profession. Ok so dabble, why do we care?
Well, obviously you haven't got a clue what your talking about man... I do love the Ranger profession or I wouldn't have strived to be one since I started , and since i started I have been a scout/ranger. If you had taken the time to actually read the posts you would obviously find that what I was trying to show was that master ranger is nothing more than SP theft. There are three lines on the ranger profession which are next to useless, if I coupled the one which actually is usefull with another profession then I would no doubt be a better ranger than if I chose to be a master ranger... Which is the paradox... How can a master ranger be a worse ranger than someone who isnt a master ranger; that was my question and its why I posted..
Turns out after a weekends worth of time on the game I am not going to be switching from master ranger to master creature handler.. I actually managed to get some more "wow" factor off my HTFB with a group I was with so I thought I would keep it until its fixed... If its fixed. I didn't use a trap over the weekend and didn't use a camo kit so I stand by convictions that those skills are useless. To be totallyhonestthough with TK in my tempate and a little CH I can bring down pretty much anything I need to hunt , and thats why I'm gonna stick with it apart from the HTFB wow factor.
So lets move on from the love statement to the "Why do we care?" statement, well considering I was and still am a master ranger and I care about the fact our profession sucks other rangers will feel the same. You don't care for some reason, and to equal your facinating argument here .. Why do I care that you don't care?..Answer is I don't .. So please next time think before you post a one liner, I wanted some feedback on what options were available and what people had done with their own templates. You offered nothing more than a slight increase in my blood pressure.
If you or anyone else are completely satisfied with the ranger profession as it is today then your love for the ranger profession is comprable to that of Norman Bates' love for his mother because this profession is old, flakey and most definately dead...