Ranger Archive

Thread: CU: Ranger Viability

Vorpaks
Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:12 pm
#1

Ok all, what the heck is Ranger viability?

Ranger viability is the answer to the question: Do I want to become a Ranger? If Ranger is a fun, viable profession post-CU the answer will be YES! I have some questions I wrote out for myself, things to keep in mind as I play. Feel free to add or subtract from this list. Use it as a general guide, not a strict format. We all have different experiences and perspectives and getting ALL of those is one of the most important things we can do.

This is really about your general overall feeling about the profession and how the changes have affected it. If you have ideas about changes that could help (especially smaller ones that will have a big impact) share them! (Like I had to ask ) I am sure Owen will be looking for solutions to present to the developers, as well as issues. Keep in mind the other threads will be more specific so you may want to post there.

Here are my questions:

1. Is this fun?
The most important question. If it is fun, people will play it even if it is not economically viable, or gives you added value to a guild or group. They will play for love. Sound familiar?

2. Can I fight effectively on my own?
This is difficult because it is tied very closely to combat level (I think). Try Ranger at different levels of combat. Are the skills you get in Ranger helping you at all? Do they become obsolete the higher in combat you go? (i.e. if you pick up more combat do you become so uber that you would never need camo?)

3. Do I feel like I am bringing value to my group?
How do you feel when you group? Does this change with the group dynamics? For example: I feel useful in an all-Ranger group but not so useful in a group with all combat templates.

4. Has the CU changed my economic viability?
Keep in mind crafter requirements have shifted with buffs and armor changing, so keep an eye on what the customers/crafters are saying in their feedback. If there is a demand for a specific type of resource? What kind of creature drops it and is that creature killable solo? If not, how big of a group do you need? What are your other opptions/other creatures? Is it fun?

5. Does the CU create any new challenges I didn't have to face before? Does it present any new opporunities?
Basically I think of this as - did it break anything? Did it open up any new gameplay opportunities? Many times there have been changes - like Mounts, Shuttles, and POIs - that are great for the game and the players but bad for us as a profession. Likewise there have been some changes, like Hero quests, new Jedi requirements, etc. that have created opportunities. Ideally we want them them to mitigate the negative and enhance the positive.

I'll probably add to this list further as we go along. Feel free to suggest questions you feel are important!

Most of all, have fun. It's a new adventure, and obviously a time of great change. Hopefully we can make these changes positive ones for the Ranger profession.

Message Edited by Vorpaks on 04-26-2005 08:59 PM



Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

Owen-Lars
Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:19 am
#2

Cheers paks


Il be updating the main hub later on with this linked thread.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Zethoun
Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:39 am
#3

maybe it's not really in the right board, but I wonder about the role of the ranger in combat when in group.


I mean, pre-CU, we could use trap as little Crowd Control, but now, with smuggler/pistoleer/carbineer... Traps was already little crapy, but now.....



Rhyeal : "[...]the Rangers quietly force their way into the light, the Jedi complain, the Jedi get trampled by a horde of very patient and angry Rangers, the BHs are too scared to complain[...]"
Owen-Lars
Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:59 pm
#4

One of the core features of my report i just handed in. Its not just the fact that the CU indirectly nerfs our ability to take down targets and that our tier defining characteristics are being handed out, its that some of our skills have now become useless (or more specifically our scout gained traps have now become useless) thanks to skills in combat professions that are less of a bind to aquire, easier and faster to use, are more effective even against the most elite level creatures in game (whereas our traps are useless in end game combat) and to top things off, dont cost resources to make.





THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Vorpaks
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:49 pm
#5

This particular thread will be more useful when enough bugs have been worked out that we get a realistic idea of how viable and fun Ranger is.



Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

Owen-Lars
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:51 pm
#6

Yup, but more importantly, when we can play ranger in beta



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Zethoun
Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:01 am
#7

I just don't want become a "super" harvester-droid without battery jauge



Rhyeal : "[...]the Rangers quietly force their way into the light, the Jedi complain, the Jedi get trampled by a horde of very patient and angry Rangers, the BHs are too scared to complain[...]"
AragornSoS
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:26 am
#8

I'm not sure which thread this would really go in, but since many of use use /mask more than camo... posted in TC Bug thread just now too.




Skill: Maskscent (Explore II)


Issue: With any number of new skills, when they are applied, you see a visible indication in what I assume is the "buff/debuff" line (icons) under you HAM in the HUD. However, after finally getting Explore II and then masking scent - nothing. The visual indication that your scent is currently "masked" is now gone (used to be the small nose icon in the old system). Most DEFINITELY a bug here, since now there is no way to know if you maskscent breaks or wears out unless you are watching system messages - VERY easy to miss. Also, the maskscent itself seemed buggy in that is wore out in less than like 15 seconds, but I'd need to go make a scout on live to test how long the duration is at only Explore 2 (been a long while since I was at that level).


/bugged in game as well




I'd say that not knowing if you're masked, not having an indication to show when it breaks - that's going to be yet another thing that helps to make scout / ranger even less viable and playable. Many folks have system messages set to not even show on the screen to minimize the spamminess and such - and if the system message is now the only way we know if /mask breaks or not...



Dekiion G'Dulth
Colonel | Imperial Sector Rangers
"What others abandon, we protect."

Master Ranger / Master Rifleman / Storm Squadron Ace
Vorpaks
Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:53 pm
#9

Since the CU is going live veery shortly I thought I would give this thread a bump and see if it becomes useful for gathering feedback at this point. I edited it a bit to reflect our post-CU status.



Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

Owen-Lars
Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:54 pm
#10

Good call



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Kcocemag
Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:07 am
#11

Ya know from what I can tell from my limited testing time in the CU and of course my extensive reading, Snares/Roots have become the new "I-win" button, replacing Dizzy/KD for combat folks. Maybe it is just me, but I think those 2 skills should be Ranger-Specific skills revolving around the traps. It really makes no sense that someone can hold a gun a certain way and snare their target instead of throwing a trap. Now I am not a Ranger, and I really don't know if this has been discussed before. However it seems to me that a viable skill that COULD have been given to Rangers was handed out like candy to everyone else.





...................
= Rups Kcocemag=
...................
=Clubbing baby Ewoks since 1985=
...................
If you can read this, then you don't need glasses.


warrioraxe12
Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:14 pm
#12

have they fixed conceal before the CU went live? I couldn't get it to work on Test Center.
KundoJet
Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:49 pm
#13






Kcocemag wrote:

Ya know from what I can tell from my limited testing time in the CU and of course my extensive reading, Snares/Roots have become the new "I-win" button, replacing Dizzy/KD for combat folks. Maybe it is just me, but I think those 2 skills should be Ranger-Specific skills revolving around the traps. It really makes no sense that someone can hold a gun a certain way and snare their target instead of throwing a trap. Now I am not a Ranger, and I really don't know if this has been discussed before. However it seems to me that a viable skill that COULD have been given to Rangers was handed out like candy to everyone else.






I suspect it has little to do with how you hold a gun, and everything to do with two considerations: suppressing fire and wound hindrances. As a veteran infantrywoman, I can attest wholeheartedly to the legitmate value of suppressing fire restricting your opponent's freedom of movement: if you've never sat in a trench while live rounds were zinging past a foot above ground level, you should give it a try! In terms of wounds, this game doesn't depend on wounds much, at least not to specific body parts, so it uses temporary states to reflect what should more realistically be injuries that would require emergency medical treatment (kneecapping springs to mind... /shudder).


None of which is to say that these +snared+ and +rooted+ effects haven't trod all over a current Ranger ability, but I'd suggest that it's the Ranger ability that needs fixing. None of the things Rangers throw are traps, in the strictest sense: they're weapons. Traps are passive devices that are put in place in advance and require the target to trigger them. Weapons are devices that are triggered by the user to apply some effect to a target. If you could actually create a trap - a boar pit, for example - in an area where you expected a combat, then were able to use your terrain negotiation and creature knoeldge to lure the target into the area of the pit, THAT would be a Ranger in action to my mind. You could even have group traps that require more than one player working with the Ranger (maybe even more than one Ranger) to create, but which would be useful against higher-level or larger mobs. Krayt deadfalls anyone?


The end result might also be that traps could be set up like harvesters: you use Areatrack to identify places where there's a high chance of catching your targetted prey, then set it your trap and go away. When you come back (later that day, or inanother session) your trap may or may not have captured the target creature, which may or may not have destroyed your trap. This would be particularly useful is certain mobs were made very rare, essentialyl requiring a Ranger to either track or trap them to make them available to other players as content. (And if some of those creatures drop key loot or harvested resources for certain schematics, you've suddenly made trapping a legitimately useful and marketable ability!).



Celebriel Inle
Black Rabbit
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