Ranger Archive
Thread: CU: Ranger Viability
/areatrack = survey
pit-trap = setting up a harvester.
KundoJet wrote:
Kcocemag wrote:
Ya know from what I can tell from my limited testing time in the CU and of course my extensive reading, Snares/Roots have become the new "I-win" button, replacing Dizzy/KD for combat folks. Maybe it is just me, but I think those 2 skills should be Ranger-Specific skills revolving around the traps. It really makes no sense that someone can hold a gun a certain way and snare their target instead of throwing a trap. Now I am not a Ranger, and I really don't know if this has been discussed before. However it seems to me that a viable skill that COULD have been given to Rangers was handed out like candy to everyone else.
I suspect it has little to do with how you hold a gun, and everything to do with two considerations: suppressing fire and wound hindrances. As a veteran infantrywoman, I can attest wholeheartedly to the legitmate value of suppressing fire restricting your opponent's freedom of movement: if you've never sat in a trench while live rounds were zinging past a foot above ground level, you should give it a try!In terms of wounds, this game doesn't depend on wounds much, at least not to specific body parts, so it uses temporary states to reflect what should more realistically be injuries that would require emergency medical treatment (kneecapping springs to mind... /shudder).
None of which is to say that these +snared+ and +rooted+ effects haven't trod all over a current Ranger ability, but I'd suggest that it's the Ranger ability that needs fixing. None of the things Rangers throw are traps, in the strictest sense: they're weapons. Traps are passive devices that are put in place in advance and require the target to trigger them. Weapons are devices that are triggered by the user to apply some effect to a target. If you could actually create a trap - a boar pit, for example - in an area where you expected a combat, then were able to use your terrain negotiation and creature knoeldge to lure the target into the area of the pit, THAT would be a Ranger in action to my mind. You could even have group traps that require more than one player working with the Ranger (maybe even more than one Ranger) to create, but which would be useful against higher-level or larger mobs. Krayt deadfalls anyone?
The end result might also be that traps could be set up like harvesters: you use Areatrack to identify places where there's a high chance of catching your targetted prey, then set it your trap and go away. When you come back (later that day, or inanother session) your trap may or may not have captured the target creature, which may or may not have destroyed your trap. This would be particularly useful is certain mobs were made very rare, essentialyl requiring a Ranger to either track or trap them to make them available to other players as content. (And if some of those creatures drop key loot or harvested resources for certain schematics, you've suddenly made trapping a legitimately useful and marketable ability!).
LOL, sine when has ANYTHING combat relatedin SWG EVER been comparable to real life? If I was in combat in real life, I sure as heck would be shooting from further than 64m. If I was in combat in real life I would find something to hide behind, where is Starwars the only thing cover does is prevents you from firing or covers your rear while you hightail it out of combat. I haven't ever been in the military- not yet, at least, gotta get out of school first- but I play a lot of paintball. I have played on plenty of fields, and not one of them has ever been comparable to combat in SWG. For instance- in close combat with lots of bunkers I willplunk a few rounds at a guy, get him to duck, and run forward to a new bunker. When he pops his head out looking for me at the old bunker I put a few tags on his mask. But in SWG, people walk into range, go prone, and fire until somebody wins. No cover. No one is ducking their head behind a bunker. No one is sitting in a trench. It is the equivalent of Irish Boxing- that is, you take turns hitting each other until someone looses.
Anyways, all that goes to say that this isn;t real life, it's a game. And when they go trodding all over our skills, which aren't all that useful for us ATM, we are going to react with alittle more than "oh, well it makes sense in real life".
Oh yeah, and we are hunters,and a lot of rangers resent the idea of made to walk back and forth and check harvesters for a catch. People are split on the idea of placed traps, but I for one would rather fight a rancor then go between traps checking to see if I caught one while I was out fishing.
WornTraveler wrote:
KundoJet wrote:
Kcocemag wrote:
Ya know from what I can tell from my limited testing time in the CU and of course my extensive reading, Snares/Roots have become the new "I-win" button, replacing Dizzy/KD for combat folks. Maybe it is just me, but I think those 2 skills should be Ranger-Specific skills revolving around the traps. It really makes no sense that someone can hold a gun a certain way and snare their target instead of throwing a trap. Now I am not a Ranger, and I really don't know if this has been discussed before. However it seems to me that a viable skill that COULD have been given to Rangers was handed out like candy to everyone else.
I suspect it has little to do with how you hold a gun, and everything to do with two considerations: suppressing fire and wound hindrances. As a veteran infantrywoman, I can attest wholeheartedly to the legitmate value of suppressing fire restricting your opponent's freedom of movement: if you've never sat in a trench while live rounds were zinging past a foot above ground level, you should give it a try!
None of which is to say that these +snared+ and +rooted+ effects haven't trod all over a current Ranger ability, but I'd suggest that it's the Ranger ability that needs fixing. None of the things Rangers throw are traps, in the strictest sense: they're weapons. Traps are passive devices that are put in place in advance and require the target to trigger them. Weapons are devices that are triggered by the user to apply some effect to a target. If you could actually create a trap - a boar pit, for example - in an area where you expected a combat, then were able to use your terrain negotiation and creature knoeldge to lure the target into the area of the pit, THAT would be a Ranger in action to my mind. You could even have group traps that require more than one player working with the Ranger (maybe even more than one Ranger) to create, but which would be useful against higher-level or larger mobs. Krayt deadfalls anyone?
The end result might also be that traps could be set up like harvesters: you use Areatrack to identify places where there's a high chance of catching your targetted prey, then set it your trap and go away. When you come back (later that day, or inanother session) your trap may or may not have captured the target creature, which may or may not have destroyed your trap. This would be particularly useful is certain mobs were made very rare, essentialyl requiring a Ranger to either track or trap them to make them available to other players as content. (And if some of those creatures drop key loot or harvested resources for certain schematics, you've suddenly made trapping a legitimately useful and marketable ability!).
LOL, sine when has ANYTHING combat relatedin SWG EVER been comparable to real life? If I was in combat in real life, I sure as heck would be shooting from further than 64m. If I was in combat in real life I would find something to hide behind, where is Starwars the only thing cover does is prevents you from firing or covers your rear while you hightail it out of combat. I haven't ever been in the military- not yet, at least, gotta get out of school first- but I play a lot of paintball. I have played on plenty of fields, and not one of them has ever been comparable to combat in SWG. For instance- in close combat with lots of bunkers I willplunk a few rounds at a guy, get him to duck, and run forward to a new bunker. When he pops his head out looking for me at the old bunker I put a few tags on his mask. But in SWG, people walk into range, go prone, and fire until somebody wins. No cover. No one is ducking their head behind a bunker. No one is sitting in a trench. It is the equivalent of Irish Boxing- that is, you take turns hitting each other until someone looses.
Anyways, all that goes to say that this isn;t real life, it's a game. And when they go trodding all over our skills, which aren't all that useful for us ATM, we are going to react with alittle more than "oh, well it makes sense in real life".
Oh yeah, and we are hunters,and a lot of rangers resent the idea of made to walk back and forth and check harvesters for a catch. People are split on the idea of placed traps, but I for one would rather fight a rancor then go between traps checking to see if I caught one while I was out fishing.
Fair enough - and I appreciate Kcocemag's comments as well (I /salute you for active duty overseas. I never served overseas, but then I'm Canadian and our opportunities were limited to peacekeeping duties at the time, with few places available).
Without question, SWG combat mechanics bear little resemblance to reality (not many people taking a rifle round in the chest - centre of mass - that just have their health drop by 10% but experience no other effects), but that shouldn't prevent us and the Devs both from looking at an idea and asking whether it's plausible. Consistency in the physical laws of the game help us to suspend our disbelief and immerse ourselves in this fantastic world.
The challenge in the game in general is that decisions are made in one area without full consideration being given to how they impact another. I'm pretty sure noone meant to make Ranger traps irrelevant by introducing +snare+ and +root+ attacks, but that's what's happened. I strongly doubt it's going to be changed now, so the question becomes: "How do we make Ranger skills more unique and useful?". I threw out one suggestion, just off the top of my head, but I know there are pages and pages of ideas on this forum, conveniently collected under a couple of those stickies up there. Hopefully Greenmarine et al will actually look at those ideas, and consider them in context with what else has been done in the combat system, and land on some changes that make sense both for the profession and the game as a whole.