Ranger Archive
Thread: It seems like Tiggs is saying we'll be waiting even longer...
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Phenix1050
Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:09 am
#1
Tiggs' recent comments seem to point to the fact that new features are not going to be coming out anytime soon. She's been posting a lot on the future and every time she does, she seems to comment that new features are being scheduled for "longer term implementation". Basically, that means they're going to be working on fixing bugs rather than fixing professions. While I am sure that a lot of people appreciate this, I find myself again a bit frustrated that they worked very hard on fixing two professions- Jedi and Bounty Hunter, and now that they're handled, the developers consider themselvesdone with fixing the professions.
I'm a person who tends to like to look at the game as a whole, as I think that's what matters most. And for the game, this is good. Get rid of a lot of major problems and you'll stop hemorrhaging players who get annoyed.This is very important because now that Episode 3 fever is dying out, we're going to see a lot of people leave the game. This seems an effort to stem that outflow, which is very good for the game.
Yet I can't help but feel betrayed yet again, as the developers seem to focus on a few pet professions and then leave the rest out to die. Creature Handlers are finally getting their new system. Personally I think the CURB never should've been pushed out without that already in the code, but I understand that the devs weren't the ones who wanted the upgrade out by May 5th. But the fact is that Ranger, Squad Leader, and Smuggler are still the three most out of date combat professions. None of them is good at what they're supposed to do.
Smugglers don't smuggle, Squad Leaders have very few skillls that actually help them lead a squad and Rangers have almost no functionality in any part of the game. It's been this way for two years now! My entire tactics rely around a trap I get in a novice profession and the terrain negotiation I get from the same novice profession. With dweezle, I could drop to Ranger trapping I and have a trapping level of 60, use dweezle and trap the same creatures I can now. I' could easily pick up other skills and have a lot more speed in my template and harvest the same amount over time because I'd kill so much faster. That's sad that the last 52 skillpoints I put into Ranger are totally useless on a functionality level.
So I'm torn between wanting the game to be good for everyone and being self-serving and wanting them to screw the minor bugs (chat interface, certain things not in loot drop, the respec window popping up) and even some major ones to get their butts in gear and start generating ideas for how to make Ranger actually usefull. I understand that there aren't that many real Rangers.I understand that there are more Jedi. But who wants to bet that the devs will make flawless and premium pearls drop again before they fix a major flaw in Ranger? Who wants to bet that a minor detail like that, which makes Jedi very slightly better, is more important to thepowers that bethan giving Rangers ANY functionality?
Tiggs, Thunderheart, and the rest of the development team have bosses too. But the idea that changes which actully make my profession worth the 140 skillpionts I spend on itare going to be scheduled for "longer term implementation" when I've already been waiting for two years is insulting. Believe me, I'm very happy that they're going to go bug hunting and try to fix stuff. But I feel that the bugs that are most likely going to be fixed are things that help other professions. I have no reason to believe that these next few patches (which will be focused on fixing bugs) will help Rangers in the least little bit. I even doubt that they'll fix the bug that causes Adhesive Mesh traps to do nothing.
So I'm torn. On one hand, I think that fixing bugs is great as a concept. On the other hand, I'm feeling like the bugs they're going to fix will only benefit the same people that see changes every single publish. and that once again, the professions which actually need work will sit on the back-burner because the suits see that most people are Jedi or BH. And of course, that number only grows because they're constantly worked on. If they gave Ranger the attention it deserved, you'd see lots of people come to Ranger too. If smugglers were able to smuggler, there would be people playing the game just to be a smuggler. I guess in the end, I just wish Tiggs wouldn't use corporate-speak phrases like "longer-term implementation" and could just lay it out there.
Tiggs has commented on the pearl/crystal drops, the chat tab bug and several other things that are NOTPROFESSION-BREAKING, but she hasn't made any comment on the tons of bugs with Rangers that actually make our profession completely useless outside of our trapping modifier and harvesting modifier-- two things you can get by eating the right foods. I really am torn, but it's times like these thatitjust seems like tiny bugs are more important to the powers that be than those of us who don't play certain professions. God, I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see Tiggs' recent comments as anything but an affirmation of my darkest fears about the direction of the game.
Badgewick
Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:42 am
#2
Phenix1050 wrote:
Tiggs has commented on the pearl/crystal drops, the chat tab bug and several other things that are NOTPROFESSION-BREAKING, but she hasn't made any comment on the tons of bugs with Rangers that actually make our profession completely useless outside of our trapping modifier and harvesting modifier-- two things you can get by eating the right foods. I really am torn, but it's times like these thatitjust seems like tiny bugs are more important to the powers that be than those of us who don't play certain professions. God, I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see Tiggs' recent comments as anything but an affirmation of my darkest fears about the direction of the game.
Umm....I'd rather them fix the bugs first than try to improve Ranger and basically put a fix on top of broken code. Kinda seems silly to put something new on something borken only to have something else go wrong.
groundcrew
Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:44 am
#3
Damn P...............
Phenix1050 wrote:
Tiggs has commented on the pearl/crystal drops, the chat tab bug and several other things that are NOTPROFESSION-BREAKING, but she hasn't made any comment on the tons of bugs with Rangers that actually make our profession completely useless outside of our trapping modifier and harvesting modifier-- two things you can get by eating the right foods. I really am torn, but it's times like these thatitjust seems like tiny bugs are more important to the powers that be than those of us who don't play certain professions. God, I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see Tiggs' recent comments as anything but an affirmation of my darkest fears about the direction of the game.
reluctantly /agreeMessage Edited by groundcrew on 07-27-2005 08:46 AM
SeanBlader
Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:00 am
#4
Last year I was thinking that we'd be getting some help around november/december then JTL was announced. Then I was thinking april/may, that didn't pan out with Kashyyyk and the CU coming.
I'm just going to stop making my own far fetched expectations because they never seem to be remotely close. Now we'll see something like this:
patches for 2 months
we'll see more entertainer stuff to make them "useful" again
we'll see BE and DE get more attention because they were broken with the CH changes
they will go on crunch time to advance the timeline
shortly after that there will be another expansion
then like 2 months later after an internal restructuring and very limited communication we'll see a new FRS
Maybe then Smugglers will get to smuggle, after that Squad Leaders will get to lead. And finally... Rangers will be removed from the game.
No really, maybe then we will find out what a Star Wars Ranger is supposed to be.
I'm just going to stop making my own far fetched expectations because they never seem to be remotely close. Now we'll see something like this:
Maybe then Smugglers will get to smuggle, after that Squad Leaders will get to lead. And finally... Rangers will be removed from the game.
No really, maybe then we will find out what a Star Wars Ranger is supposed to be.
Oculus
Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:14 am
#5
One of the biggest problems in regards to Ranger and bug-fixes is that our bugs are rooted deep in the SWG game-systems, especially the spawn-system.
A lot of our tracking, trap and even camp proposals take for granted that SOE are willing to throw expensive bandwidth and server CPU cycles our way. They aren't...
Imagine the increased resource requirement if they implemented tracking "flawlessly". Rangers would have to trigger spawn from 500m away, tracking would have to trigger spawn and on and on and on. Introducing a new smuggling system, putting together new dance moves or changing around a few stats is a one-time man-hour investment. A lot of our requests would increase server load from now on until the games closes.
If only they would send a Dev our way with enough knowledge about the different systems to have a qualified discussion with us about what's feasible and what is not, we'd be a lot closer to a "revamp" :/
A lot of our tracking, trap and even camp proposals take for granted that SOE are willing to throw expensive bandwidth and server CPU cycles our way. They aren't...
Imagine the increased resource requirement if they implemented tracking "flawlessly". Rangers would have to trigger spawn from 500m away, tracking would have to trigger spawn and on and on and on. Introducing a new smuggling system, putting together new dance moves or changing around a few stats is a one-time man-hour investment. A lot of our requests would increase server load from now on until the games closes.
If only they would send a Dev our way with enough knowledge about the different systems to have a qualified discussion with us about what's feasible and what is not, we'd be a lot closer to a "revamp" :/
Oku Kee'lus
JBMat
Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:18 am
#6
What if every time a Ranger logged into the game he or she did a /bug and reported that examine is broken. And did it every half hour on the hour and half hour. Or every 15 minutes, on the quarter hours.
Interesting idea.
We should start acting like BHs and Jedi and maybe we will get some loving.
JB
Seiryuu
Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:25 am
#7
I want them to fix the bugs first. Sparkly new toys do no good if you can't use them or enjoy the game because of bugs.
Even worse, if they implement new code around old bugs, then all the dependent systems are going to become buggy when the original stuff is fixed. The base code needs to be better before they add anything else or we end up getting the CU2.
Even worse, if they implement new code around old bugs, then all the dependent systems are going to become buggy when the original stuff is fixed. The base code needs to be better before they add anything else or we end up getting the CU2.
Phenix1050
Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:49 am
#8
bugs like krayts not dropping premium pears are not game-breaking. Having to re-join a chat channel is not game breaking. Having a respec window pop up every so often is not game breaking. All of these things are annoying, but they don't affect the ability for a profession to survive. Ranger bugs do mess up gameplay and your ability to survive.
Sadly, it isn't those types of Bugs that Tiggs has said are on the internal list of thigns to fix. It's the pearl drops, the chat tabs, things of that nature.
You guys say that you don't want ranger changes on a broken system, but tell me-- how does premium pearls not dropping relate to the fact that only one trap works when hunting solo? Sadly the things on Tiggs' list don't seem to be fixing major flaws in the game, but rather pleasing the whiners. Believe me, I'd like chat tabs fixed too....but not at the expense of Rangers.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe they'll fix profession-breaking bugs. But that doesn't seem to be their focus right now.
Almagill
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:05 am
#9
Phenix1050 wrote:bugs like krayts not dropping premium pears are not game-breaking. Having to re-join a chat channel is not game breaking. Having a respec window pop up every so often is not game breaking. All of these things are annoying, but they don't affect the ability for a profession to survive. Ranger bugs do mess up gameplay and your ability to survive.Sadly, it isn't those types of Bugs that Tiggs has said are on the internal list of thigns to fix. It's the pearl drops, the chat tabs, things of that nature.You guys say that you don't want ranger changes on a broken system, but tell me-- how does premium pearls not dropping relate to the fact that only one trap works when hunting solo? Sadly the things on Tiggs' list don't seem to be fixing major flaws in the game, but rather pleasing the whiners. Believe me, I'd like chat tabs fixed too....but not at the expense of Rangers.Maybe I'm wrong and maybe they'll fix profession-breaking bugs. But that doesn't seem to be their focus right now.
Aye....
then again, maybe they're starting with the stuff that's easiest for them to fix (hopefully without it breaking something else totally unconnected) then working up to the tougher stuff before looking at the severely borked stuff.
And Phen, I know you're not really tiggs bashing, so this is not directed at you [[honest]]... but tiggs can only communicate to us what the production / final publish team communicate to her. (or whatever the group of dev's that cobbles together the actual publishes, as opposed to the code-monkeys, pretty colour appliers and random item designers, is called.)
Anyhow, having said that, I'm suffering from another does of the TC-Mothball Blues and wondering why I'm still subbed to the game when, certainly in the past 6 weeks, I've logged in to my main on average only a few minutes per day (usually to stock vendor and pay rents) and my random other characters have done little more than run enough missions to cover their rent / complete quests to get some geegaw.
I should maybe just go out back and eat grass or something...
Seiryuu
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:14 am
#10
I think profession breaking bugs are as likely to be fixed as anything else. Redesigns are less likely, but I think there will be some of those as well. See the new CH system for example.
That is dependent upon volume though and always has been. More people are affected by the chat window than the adhesive mesh trap not working. It's also a quality of life issue that is both annoying and starts the play session on a downer. JB's idea of bugging examine/creature knowledge upon every login is actually a good one for this very reason.
That is dependent upon volume though and always has been. More people are affected by the chat window than the adhesive mesh trap not working. It's also a quality of life issue that is both annoying and starts the play session on a downer. JB's idea of bugging examine/creature knowledge upon every login is actually a good one for this very reason.
Iseult
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:15 am
#11
you know... maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but at the same time as Tiggs posted this, they are really close to releasing some sweeping and really cool sounding CH changes. So I imagine that they are still working on things in the background, but just aren't going to advertise them so much. I sort of like these quick publishes and if they can do them without introducing as many new bugs as they fix (which seems to be the issue atm), then all the better.
Still, I agree - it would be really nice if the devs said "hey wait, we have these classes in the game that no one is playing. The fact that these professions are underutilized indicates a serious flaw in our game design, so what can we do to get more players interested in these professions?" I mean, the fact that tons of people aren't playing ranger (or rather, the fact that so many try it, keep it for a week, and then drop it) could be considered as strident a "complaint" as all of the bh, smuggler, and jedi posts combined.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin
Still, I agree - it would be really nice if the devs said "hey wait, we have these classes in the game that no one is playing. The fact that these professions are underutilized indicates a serious flaw in our game design, so what can we do to get more players interested in these professions?" I mean, the fact that tons of people aren't playing ranger (or rather, the fact that so many try it, keep it for a week, and then drop it) could be considered as strident a "complaint" as all of the bh, smuggler, and jedi posts combined.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin
RenshaGrangle
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
#12
I have the sneaking suspicion that I'll be leaving for LOTR Online before the Ranger prof is fixed.
Fodder650
Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:01 am
#13
Phenix is right nd so is Almagil. Tiggs is just the voice piece for the devs. She cant control anything. Im down to one account as of today. And it only exists because of my station pass to get into other sony games now.
At some point the pain should just be stopped. And we should just be emiminated as a profession. In fact there are several other professions that could just as easily be gotten rid of. Why have us hang out here like idiots for two years?
At some point the pain should just be stopped. And we should just be emiminated as a profession. In fact there are several other professions that could just as easily be gotten rid of. Why have us hang out here like idiots for two years?
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