Ranger Archive
Thread: CU: Unconstructive rants and bitter tirades here, please
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Temujin23
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:50 am
#1
Figured it was time I did my part. There are several CU threads on the ranger forum. Well and good. However... if, like me, you have nothing constructive or positive to add, or would like to have such but just can't find a way to express yourselves yet without the rage getting the better of you, then please rant away here. Better to have such venting collected in one place that can be easily dismissed by all, rather than diluting the more seriousthreads withrampant speculation and unfocused discontent.
We can all trust Owen, Calc, Phenix, JB, and others to fight like demons to get a fair shake for theranger and scout professions-- let's allow them to do their thing, and offer them our input on the more serious threads when we can do so calmly and rationally. Like Rangers. Not bounty hunters and jedi.
Okay.
CH's finally got some attention. Long time coming, I say. Congrats are in order.
Combat medics and docs? Come on. Okay, maybe combat medics are a combat prof. They do have combat in their name, after all. But docs? A little more salt in the wound here, SOE-- you missed a spot.
Battle armor. Not recon armor. I don't know what to say, though 'are you out of your bloody minds?!!?' is probably a good place to start.
So, radar invisibilty got introduced, eh? Awesome! Wait, you said who got it? Bah!
Did I hear that right? Pistoliers just replaced my entire trapping line?CanIthrow them?
Hey, now I can be a master ranger/master BH. That's kind of neat. Except that all of my marks will have 1k more health than me. That's not so neat anymore. In fact, it's the exact opposite of neat. Which, I believe,is teh suck. Been a while since I took the SAT's, though.
Wow, I feel better. Calmer, even.
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger/Master Pistolier
JBMat
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:01 am
#2
Gahhhhh.
I agree with Temujin.
Quit, massive applications of sedatives.
That and the fact it takes a noob about for freaking ever to kill a stupid Nuna. Yeah, I want to play a game takes me two weeks to make a single box in a skill solo.
JB
AgonThalia
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:46 am
#3
I am not happy with the way that the devs are viewing rangers.
As of now, i fear that we are being sluffed off as a "crafter's alt profession".
If I wanted to be a BH, i would be a BH, but whats the use of being a BH/ Ranger if i cant even take down a stinking NPC target, let alone a little padawan?
Sure, i will be able to track them (oh wait, i can do that with a droid) I can shoot them and i can die. Like JB said, make friends with the cloner... I have a feeling that i will see the insides of a bacta tank so often, i would need to get health insurance.
Owelo
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:56 am
#4
Temujin23 wrote:
Did I hear that right? Pistoliers just replaced my entire trapping line?CanIthrow them?
Well at least we can throw 19m further than they can shoot in the cu...................oops i shouldn't have said anything, we'll lose that too.
Cryos_Merovingian
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:33 am
#6
If I weren't a ranger, I think I'd like the CU. But right now I feel like the Devs are all having a party in the foyer with all the other profs while the Rangers are in the back bent over the table with Evil-Vader-Dev yelling:
"Armor: Muahaha, why would YOUR armor have extra kinetic resists?"
"Health: We all know you guys just go for Ranger 0/4/0/0 and camp all day. Why the heck would we give you the max health if your camping rather than killing stuff?"
"Harvesting: Don't worry, it's going to be harder to kill stuff so you won't collect as much. But that's ok, because we know you sit in camp all day anyway"
"Trapping: Are you trying to tell me that you HAVE to be in combat if you throw a trap? I don't believe you. But that may have to do with the fact that I've never played as a ranger. No combat for you!"
"Weapon Cert: I don't understand what your problem is. It's not like rangers go hunting or anything. A gun in camp is just a recipe for somebody losing an eye"
"Skill points: I was going to flip you the bird, but I thought it'd be much funnier to make Rangers the only elite profession that requires mastery of a novice profession and then pour a little salt in your wounds by giving you NOTHING as compensation. See, now isn't that FAR funnier than me flipping you the bird?"
"Mass Exodus: I hope so! that way fewer people will complain when we remove the prof from the game because, in case you hadn't already noticed, we're working real hard to ensure that it has minimal utility and value"
"Armor: Muahaha, why would YOUR armor have extra kinetic resists?"
"Health: We all know you guys just go for Ranger 0/4/0/0 and camp all day. Why the heck would we give you the max health if your camping rather than killing stuff?"
"Harvesting: Don't worry, it's going to be harder to kill stuff so you won't collect as much. But that's ok, because we know you sit in camp all day anyway"
"Trapping: Are you trying to tell me that you HAVE to be in combat if you throw a trap? I don't believe you. But that may have to do with the fact that I've never played as a ranger. No combat for you!"
"Weapon Cert: I don't understand what your problem is. It's not like rangers go hunting or anything. A gun in camp is just a recipe for somebody losing an eye"
"Skill points: I was going to flip you the bird, but I thought it'd be much funnier to make Rangers the only elite profession that requires mastery of a novice profession and then pour a little salt in your wounds by giving you NOTHING as compensation. See, now isn't that FAR funnier than me flipping you the bird?"
"Mass Exodus: I hope so! that way fewer people will complain when we remove the prof from the game because, in case you hadn't already noticed, we're working real hard to ensure that it has minimal utility and value"
Phenix1050
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:05 am
#7
I don't like cheese! (trying to be unconstructive as possible)
In all seriousness, the CU has actually made me consider dropping Ranger while I go for Jedi on my main. I'll pick it back up on my alt because I'm a glutton for punishment. but if the Ranger Revamp comes and we still don't have added health and we still don't have a lot of the skill that we asked for that will go to other professions...well, I'll probably leave SWG. I'm a Ranger through and through and if SOE isn't smart enough to realize that every profession needs to be FUN and they don't take suggestions from the peoplethat play that profession everyday on how to make it more fun...well then they're probably not smart enought to trust with my money.
AgonThalia
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:30 am
#8
Phenix1050 wrote:
if SOE isn't smart enough to realize that every profession needs to be FUN and they don't take suggestions from the peoplethat play that profession everyday on how to make it more fun...well then they're probably not smart enought to trust with my money.
Amen! I couldnt agree with you more Phenix.
If they dont listen to the community, then i really dont see the point in playing the game for much longer. there are a lot of things i can do in the game, but i have the most fun playing ranger. If i no longer have fun with ranger, then the game is really no longer worth it for me.
KaiRaene
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:33 am
#9
Hey, at least its not just us. The Entertainers now get "Inspirational Buffs" LOL. This is to replace mind buffs. Mmmkay... yeah, they help you achieve better xp and faction points... /shakeshead.
BTW, Phenix, help me keep that TC forum (shafted)thread alive. I want it to outlast the CU
A plea to a Master Forum Ranger
BTW, Phenix, help me keep that TC forum (shafted)thread alive. I want it to outlast the CU
A plea to a Master Forum Ranger
Necriscoth
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:34 am
#10
AgonThalia wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:
if SOE isn't smart enough to realize that every profession needs to be FUN and they don't take suggestions from the peoplethat play that profession everyday on how to make it more fun...well then they're probably not smart enought to trust with my money.
Amen! I couldnt agree with you more Phenix.
If they dont listen to the community, then i really dont see the point in playing the game for much longer. there are a lot of things i can do in the game, but i have the most fun playing ranger. If i no longer have fun with ranger, then the game is really no longer worth it for me.
sniff...we'll always have Lok.
Jolandir
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:36 am
#11
Actually at the moment we are not even in the class with crafters. Why would I say this. I have been testing the CU, my main character on TC 5 is a ranger type. It is abundantly clear we are not considered a combat profession, nor are we considered a combat support profession, even in the crafting concept of support.
First one's health bar increases directly with the number of "Elite Combat Professions" you have mastered. Health increases directly in response to your going up these trees. OK, I think we are all together so far. Now, Scout and Ranger are not considered combat professions (remember you must master Scout to even take on some of the Ranger skills if not Mastering Range) thus your health bar does not increase at all for mastering either one or both of these. The devs have made it clear you will not be able to "master" three Elite Profession like was possible in the past. (Hmmm, so if I master Ranger I have only one Master Elite Combat Profession. I believe your life bar will increase if you were to master brawler or marksman, but if you do this you can not Master an Elite Combat profession since you have already used up a lot of points in master Scout and Ranger, so you can't aford to just master brawler or marksman as this will never give you the skills or the weapons to do in real fighting beyond beginning creatures and NPCs. So you will want to try and Master an Elite Combat profession, but as it stands now unlike the old system where you could go up one branch in marksman or brawler to try and master an Elite Combat profession, you now have to fill two branches in either brawler or marksman. This takes up an added 14 SP you did not have use before, so If you make it to Master an Elite Combat profession you will just barely make or you will not make it at all.
Now of course you could avoid some of this by mastering the only Elite Combat Profession (although it is currently the weakest of all of them) that comes purely off of Scout which is CH, but if you do this you will only have CH as your real fighting means. Yes you could then put some into brawler or marksman, but more then likely you will only be able to achieve novice in any other Elite Profession because (as mentioned before) you must complete two branches in either brawler or marksman before you can become a novice in any Elite Combat profession. So in essence you are pretty limited if you are a Master Ranger. There just is not enough SP especially since you have to use up 14 extra SPs to try and master an Elite Combat profession.
So anyway you look at it your health bar is going to be considerably less then those who chose to either dabble in scout (you know, get maskscent and possibly get better harvesting) or be so bold as to master Scout and dabble in Ranger (Say you either go for areatracking or camo). Now if you just want to go up the terrain and harvesting branches of scout (you say to yourself well at least I am retaining something of the Scout/Ranger ethos), you are somewhat limited but this allows you to Master Two Combat Professions (and if you are more Ranger at heart you most likely would go up CH so you are at least using the nature you love) and by Mastering two you have the maximum health you can attain in the game through the CU (at least as it stands now).
Second, we are not considered a direct combat support profession such as Doctor, Entertainer (interesting new buff system for them) or Medic. Nor are we looked at as direct support as in Weapon Smith, Armor Smith, DE, BE (supports directly combat such as CH), even builders, cheffs (food buffs). In reality we (Scouts/Rangers) are a support profession for the direct support professions for combat. In other words, we gather resources (and certainly not solely us since any fighter can gather resources or a character grouped with those who are killing and harvesting the creatures can harvest from creatures) for the true combat support professions, such as WS, AS, DE, Doctors, Medics and Chefs, since all the things we manufacture, traps, camo kits, and camps really don't do anything in support of Combat. You can use traps inspite of the fact that in several of the movies traps were used very successfully, and have been throughout history as well in combat. Camo that should make one far more combat worthy doesn't work in combat. (Don't you think it is interesting that animals who senses are far superior to humans or any humanoids can be fooled by our maskscent/camo kits but absolutely do no good in reference to fighthing in combat).
Yes I know the mantra that has been espoused since SWG went live, "be patient Rangers we are still thinking about possibly considereing doing something for you Scouts and Rangers". Yes since SWG launch they did give us areatracking and camo which was nice (but absolutely useless in combat), and oh yes if you are a M Ranger we got a nice harvesting bonus. So with those couple of bones (we do harvest bones you know) they say now be quiet, one of these years we might get around to possibly considering doing something significant for Scouts and Rangers.
If any other profession in this game were treated this way there would be such a mass exit from this game SWG would only be a rememberance in some gamers minds. Rangers are a different breed of cat, since we tend to be very tolerant, and tend to have higher ideals about life in the game and in RL. So the devs just don't think there is any reason to really listen to us, or any real reason to do much for this profession. Gads to think after all this time they still have not heard us loud and clear that we think of ourselves as a combat profession distinct and unique to this and any other game we might play, and have not stopped to realize they are the only ones in the gaming industry that doesn't see us as a fighting class is beyond belief.
Yes as Temujin23 stated, several of the things that most assuredly should have beenour area of expertise in combat, which the devs have said for a long, long time to us Scouts/Rangers, they did not and do not consider those things such as traps and camo in our profession as combat oriented. Now they give them unflinchingly to other professions. Holy Toledo Batman, what brain surgeon removed their gray matter? Gads!
Other professions are fuming because they can't be supermen/women anymore in game, but we can't even get a little amount of respect from the devs at all!
I like a lot of things about this new CU, but I am so very tired of the devesrun overus, and then the back over us again and again just be sure they have done enough damage. So how do the devs now justify not giving us all the things we have asked for, for so long? Well "wait and see Rangers" we just might, possibly, consider giving you another bone. Maybe!
Jolandir
Almagill
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:55 am
#12
Ok, first off, I am dropping most of Ranger post CU regardless of what tehy do skill points wise, abilities wise or in the shape of a huge present with ribbons on.
Second off, for all the ranters and whingers who are getting pwned by lvl90 Nuna (and I really hate that fricking lvl stuff. I'm a Ranger, not a lvl18 player. One of the things that put me off games like WoW was the constant 'ooh what level are you ate? I'm an 18..) please, remember that just now the creature levels are insanely out of kilter - for a reason.
Dev's want testing of particualr aspects of the changes. they are trying to check the "foundations" before building on them.
So, go to a town like Espa, walk outside the walls and theres massive spawn levels of non-aggro newb critters. Literally at city limits you find really high ham but non-aggro creatures and npc's. Beyond that everything con's purple (I hate that too) has such insanely high health that you can't, even with a group, put much of a dent in. Beyond that and you've got insane high health and aggro.
150k nuna, 250k scyk, nomad/hermit gank squads with 200k health. And, if you find one skulking in the rocks near the Tusken bunker, a 50k health ancient krayt and family, nicely non-aggro but your pathetic 50 points of damage heals faster than you can fire...
There are some things seriously wrong in the CU. there are some things that MIGHT be wrong in CU with regards our profession, but til they unlock the elite profs we are guessing how bad that might be. Lets not get distracted by the current test set up which anyone who can step back for a minute and think 'are SOE really dumb enough to unbalance things like that? krayts that ar weaker than nuna??' should be able to see is just that, a test environment in which players are acting as pseudo random number generators to create stats that let the dev team see who the mechanics are working.
Oh aye, and for anyone thinking 'fanboi! he's got his nose so far up SOE's butt he can't see the problems' as some ringpiece in general chat last night suggested I've only one thing to say.
Eat me! /echuta
Second off, for all the ranters and whingers who are getting pwned by lvl90 Nuna (and I really hate that fricking lvl stuff. I'm a Ranger, not a lvl18 player. One of the things that put me off games like WoW was the constant 'ooh what level are you ate? I'm an 18..) please, remember that just now the creature levels are insanely out of kilter - for a reason.
Dev's want testing of particualr aspects of the changes. they are trying to check the "foundations" before building on them.
So, go to a town like Espa, walk outside the walls and theres massive spawn levels of non-aggro newb critters. Literally at city limits you find really high ham but non-aggro creatures and npc's. Beyond that everything con's purple (I hate that too) has such insanely high health that you can't, even with a group, put much of a dent in. Beyond that and you've got insane high health and aggro.
150k nuna, 250k scyk, nomad/hermit gank squads with 200k health. And, if you find one skulking in the rocks near the Tusken bunker, a 50k health ancient krayt and family, nicely non-aggro but your pathetic 50 points of damage heals faster than you can fire...
There are some things seriously wrong in the CU. there are some things that MIGHT be wrong in CU with regards our profession, but til they unlock the elite profs we are guessing how bad that might be. Lets not get distracted by the current test set up which anyone who can step back for a minute and think 'are SOE really dumb enough to unbalance things like that? krayts that ar weaker than nuna??' should be able to see is just that, a test environment in which players are acting as pseudo random number generators to create stats that let the dev team see who the mechanics are working.
Oh aye, and for anyone thinking 'fanboi! he's got his nose so far up SOE's butt he can't see the problems' as some ringpiece in general chat last night suggested I've only one thing to say.
Eat me! /echuta
AragornSoS
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:38 am
#13
The funny part to me (any by funny I mean pathetic really, 'cause none of this really seems "funny" anymore) is the random folks who are posting "oh, stop whining, Ranger isn't a combat proff" (or whatever their arguement is.
Well, let's SAY all the true Rangers leave 'cause we're sick of playing a gimped prof post-CU. So who's going to harvest stuff to make all the goodies that all those combat folks want?
Wait, you say, those same combat folks orcraftersare super dedicated to the game, and will go and make Master Ranger alts (or even 0030 or 0040 Rangers) to get the uber harvest bonuses, and they will harvest the organics? But wait... they don't have enough HAM to do it 'cause "Ranger isn't a combat prof". And becuase they can have 1 (+ maybe a bit extra of another if they limit their Ranger to novice or just the tracking line) combat profs, they still lack HAM and can't kill as well as thier multi-master buddies who are getting all the crazy stacking speed and defense mods from going multi master in ranged or melee profs.
And those of us here, at least in some cases, LIKE to hunt. I personally ENJOY going on, wandering a planet, and hunting the day away. Come back with a nice stack of whatever, sell to one of my crafter contacts at a reasonable price, everyone is happy. Most folks would view THAT as a "Grind" tho, and already aren't willing to do it unless it's something super easy to get (huge stacks of Dath carni for example). How likely is someone to play a Ranger, and harvest organics, when this system goes live, and it's actually REALLY hard work to do? When it requires multiple folks in a group to take on any mid-high creatures? How many times do you think you'll get week long hunt groups forming with all the combat types slaughtering whatever is needed, for the tag-along ranger or scout to harvest stuff to sell for a crafter?
I can see this having massive downstream effect on the economy and on so many other professions. But the devs must be right. We must not be a combat prof. Why would anyone want to think of balancing the hunters who have to engage in combat to harvest, to trap, to rescue.
I may not drop Master Ranger right away. I may just keep it to have fun for a while, I still have a couple tiers to finish up in JtL. I may be sitting around, laughing my butt off with all the "but I need this so bad, PLEASE harvest some for me" tells and such. When the giant outcry about how hard it is to get organics, or find a ranger or even a master scout starts... I might just want to be sitting off somewhere in my HTFB, thinking "yah... we told ya so, but nobody cared".
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