Ranger Archive

A little backstory: The reason we called it the "Outdoorsman" was because we originally submitted our vision of Ranger to them, in the usual list of bugs and enhancements we wanted and were told that we were "the ultimate creature profession" or "the ultimate hunter" or something like that. Most of didn't want to be JUST a resource gathering machine. We wanted options that would also make us useful in PvP and the GCW. So we said "don't think of as the ultimate hunter, think of us as the ultimate outdoorsman. We would like just as much emphasis on our ability to survive in harsh environments or dangerous conditions as on the hunt-kill-harvest-repeat aspect of our profession.

We have been waiting for any more feedback for so long that we have forgotten the original reason we submitted our suggestions in the "Outdoorsman" proposal format. But you may be right. Maybe the developers have also forgotten their original reasons for nixing our suggestions and we should begin resubmitting them in their original form.

Hehe. I type too slow. That is originally what we did have Hyperdiver, and it didn't work. We got back the "you are working as intended response." We finally decided they needed convincing and developed a document to excite them about different possibilities.

I'll see if I can dig up some of our old suggestion lists and the response and necro-post it. I think I replied to one or two.

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Squidwalker wrote:

The outdoorsman could use a little rewriting, with new information we have now. But I think we might want to wait until after the CB is in, before doing any major work on it. We might not be a primary combat profession(yet) but the CB if done right, will effect us. We enter combat with creatures. I'm still of the opinion that we should be the ultimate creature "killer". A master ranger, especially with a master of elite combat profession, should be able to outhunt, outkill, outharvest, any other profession combination in the game. Period. Just my thoughts. If we are only to be creature "finders" then the profession is a waiste of the skill points.

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/cheer
I am sorry if I sounded like the Outdoorsman shouldn't be touched. I don't think anyone meant or means for it to be a Bible. It has just become that way from being around so long (at first we expected immediate feedback and then revisions). Basically I think people want to wait until we DO get feedback before asking for Calc to take the immense amount of time required to adequately revise it. In the meantime there are a lot of threads (like the Stealth thread) that propose ideas that add to or modify the proposal. It is in these threads that we should polish our ideas and suggest modifications. That way Calc doesn't have to update that monster document every time someone throws out a suggestion. After we get feedback all thses threads can be gathered up and Calc (or whoever volunteers) can make a new Outdoorsman tapestry. Ah, the poetry of it all.

And I hate to mention it... but did you just say WAIT FOR THE COMBAT BALANCE!??!!?? Bad Chuba!! Go sit in the corner!

/tickle

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

A little history of the outdorrsman proposal: the shortened version.

We were given the /conceal ability. It worked on all PvE mobs (creature and NPC). On day a patch caused it to break (I still say it was broken and not nerfed). We asked to have it fixed, they said it was never intended to work on NPCs. We raised the bull poop flag and they said, Rangers are to be creature hunters only (and by hunter, they meant we were not to be the creature killers, just the creature finders). We raised the bull poop flag even higher and either at their request or our own uppityness, we defined how Rangers could fit into a Creature Hunter/Killer role and not step on any toes. We have had minimal feedback on this proposal, and IMO, we will never have it completely implemented. There are key ideas that i think we will see in the future, but nothing concrete.

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In Regard to the Outdoorsman, We have heard stealth is probably NOT going to happen, I am not a fan of modular camps, (while a great body of work) it offers me nothing other than a fix to traps and conceal.

So to Flynn, I think the outdoorsman is basicly what you are asking for, a basic fix to the profession if you take a few things out.

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Squidwalker wrote:

Well I agree, I don't fully support or like 100% of outdoorsman. And now since they have finally told us they will never give rangers NPC or PC traps, we can remove/rewrite that part. I don't have a problem with us not having NPC/PC traps, it's just good to finally get that answer. Its answers like that we have been asking for.

The outdoorsman could use a little rewriting, with new information we have now. But I think we might want to wait until after the CB is in, before doing any major work on it. We might not be a primary combat profession(yet) but the CB if done right, will effect us. We enter combat with creatures. I'm still of the opinion that we should be the ultimate creature "killer". A master ranger, especially with a master of elite combat profession, should be able to outhunt, outkill, outharvest, any other profession combination in the game. Period. Just my thoughts. If we are only to be creature "finders" then the profession is a waiste of the skill points.

So yes, we could do a little rewriting of it. Remember, it got written months ago, with a previous coorespondant, who spent a lot of time on it. I think we have been waiting/hoping to get "some" feedback from the devs on it as is. We have not. They want feed back from us when they put a lot of work into someting new, but they won't give it to us. And we volunteer for doing all this work. Hell we actually PAY to do all this work, that part of is their job. And we get no feedback from them. That's the frustrating part. I see all those posts on TC forums asking for feed back on this, feedback on that. Well how about we get some freaking feedback?

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I am actually looking forward to the Combat Revamp because of ONE thing.

For SOME reason the Devs made Master Ranger one of the 4 classes able to wear Mandolorian Armor.

WHY have a support class like Ranger being able to wear one of the most elite and rare armors IF they were not going to do SOMETHING combat wise for Ranger in the Combat Revamp.

So, I am hoping something good comes our way soon.

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MonsofoLexius wrote:

In Regard to the Outdoorsman, We have heard stealth is probably NOT going to happen, I am not a fan of modular camps, (while a great body of work) it offers me nothing other than a fix to traps and conceal.

So to Flynn, I think the outdoorsman is basicly what you are asking for, a basic fix to the profession if you take a few things out.

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I would not quite give up on stealth justyet, not until they answer to my saticefaction the question of "just what does happen at 128m that makes the target disappear?"

Supposedly Mandolorian will have lightsaber resistances. Do you think someone read about the Antarian Ranger concept?

Right now on Test Center the Knight Trials consist of things like find 3 of a certain type of creature and kill it. Some think this will cause a great demand for Rangers with /areatrack ability. (I have been without DSL for over a week so have not been able to see how TC2 is faring)

The smugglers are right this minute discussing a concept called "sidekicks."

Do these three things have anything in common? Probably not! But it is fun to wonder...

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Flynn_Nomad wrote:

2 things

1. The Outdoorsman as is, is WAY too ambitious. Now don't get me wrong, it's awesome and interesting and if it WERE ever implemented would truly rock. But as it is, these Dev's can't handle that scope of work. Just look at Chefs and Smugglers and DE's. Chefs and DE's had their day in the sun and I STILL think the outdoorsman is a bigger project (DE's had 2 publishes!)

2. The actual name "The Outdoorsman" has a negative stigma attached to it IMHO because its LONG and complicated and the devs have already looked at it and made their judgement.If these elements are to be implemented at ANY level, the Dev's need to be "tricked" into doing so. Like I said before, getting a kid to take medicine, you have to make it look like candy. Or if you want a kid to take out the garbage or do chores, you need to trick them into believing its fun.

Once the Combat Revamp hits, I think we need to be prepared to submit a sugar coated, slimmed down and RENAMED(most important) proposal.

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When written NRass was our coor. He was of the opinion, we will never get everything we ask for, so ask for a lot, so we get something. We figured we had only been give the info that we are masters of the "outdoors" and creature hunting. Thus the name. Hey how about we just change it to "Ranger Revamp"? Got a better name to suggest, I'm open to ideas. Again we named it "outdoorsman" because that was the exact word they devs used to tell us their "view" of ranger.

On the subject of the devs saw it and rejected it. As far as we can tell they have not seen it. Thunderheart says he has read it and likes a lot of it. He is not a dev, only a leiason to the community. The dev who was and still is in charge of ranger has admitted himself, that he has not read it. He asked to, and he said he would as soon as he gets a chance. He is main dev on the JTL expansion.

Rooks, the addition of the Mando armor to rangers is exactly why I also think we are getting something from the CB. I had the exact same thought on it as you did when I found that out.