Ranger Archive

Thread: CU: Master Ranger with Minimal Combat

WildBil2Me
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:08 pm
#1

Disclaimer: This is currently TEST data. Many variables are added through progression within the Scout and Ranger trees. I'm using current values which can be culled from my own experience as a 2/2/3/1 Scout. As more data is collected I'll be continuing this document.


Anyway, this post is designed to supplement my CU:Ranger Progression thread. Basically I'll be crunching numbers here and building some tables that we can use to aid our arguments for getting Ranger some CU attention.


Let's get started...


There are two types of Scout/Ranger related XP that require combat: Trapping XP & Scouting XP.


Being deemed a non-combat profession, I've set out to determine what lengths a player must go to in order to get to the Master Ranger Box without taking any Combat skills.


Admittedly, this is not a "prime" example of how Ranger or Scout are used in live. There is however, in my opinion, a logical fallacy which is in effect.


Scouts/Rangers are not core combatants. As such, they do not need Health Bonuses in order to do their job. As an Artisan does not require more health to craft his wares, a Scout/Ranger does not need more health to conduct his hunting.


I am setting out now to defeat that notion. The goal of this post is to examine how a "non-combat" Novice Scout would endeavor to become a Master Ranger without picking any skills up beyond Novice Scout.


The Ground Rules:


  1. The player, in an attempt to be a self sufficient scout, cannot take any Combat Profession.This restriction is designed to recognize the Scout as a "non-combat" profession.

  2. Combat Level can only be granted via Scout or Ranger. This restriction is designed to recognize the current state of the Scout and Ranger professions within the TCEp3 model.

  3. Beyond basicskillsgranted in theirScout/Ranger trees, the player can only use skills inherently available at creation. By default all players get "meleehit" and "ranged shot."


What This Means:


  1. The Combat Level of the Ranger will not pass CL1.

  2. The Scout/Ranger is limited to 1,000 health due to their CL.

  3. The player will only have a chance to kill CL1 creatures, and even this will be a challenge as the CL1 creature will be a White Con.

  4. At CL1 the player will only be able to harvest a value of 68 xp / kill. (have yet to test this with a group.)

Now start Playing!


Survival: We're going to skip survival for now because it truly is a non-combat skillset within Scout and Ranger. With the exception of the bonus granted for healing done in a camp, combat doesn't really affect the collection of Survival XP.



Exploration / Hunting: Now, for a CL1 player, a CL1 creature will award 68 Scout XP at harvest.


That value of 68xp is currently based off of a Scout 0/0/0/0 build on TCEp3."Fat and healthy" creatures yielded this number so it can be considered a "best case" number. Currently, it appears that CL defines the XP yield for Scout XP at time of harvest. These values therefore (because we're not passing CL1) will not change.


Scout:


  • Exploration 1 (1,000xp): 15 creatures

  • Exploration 2 (5,000xp): 74 creatures or 89 total

  • Exploration 3 (10,000xp): 147 creatures or 236 total

  • Exploration 4 (15,000xp): 221 creatures or 457 total

  • Hunting 1 (1,000xp):15 creatures or 472 total

  • Hunting 2 (5,000xp): 74 creatures or 546 total

  • Hunting 3 (10,000xp): 147 creatures or 693 total

  • Hunting 4 (15,000xp): 221 creatures or 914 total

That's 914 CL1 creatures that need to die at the hands of a non combat scout in order to make it through the two trees of Scout XP required for Master Scout. This requires the Scout to kill and harvest everything as CL 1.


Ranger:




  • Novice Ranger: (15,000xp): 221 creatures or 1,135 total


  • Wayfairing 1: (20,000xp) 294 creatures or 1,429 total


  • Wayfairing 2: (30,000xp) 442 creatures or 1,871 total


  • Wayfairing 3: (50,000xp) 735 creatures or 2,606 total


  • Wayfairing 4: (70,000xp) 1029 creatures or 3,635 total


  • Tracking 1: (20,000xp)294 creatures or 3,929 total


  • Tracking 2: (30,000xp) 442 creatures or 4,371 total


  • Tracking 3: (50,000xp) 735 creatures or 5,106 total


  • Tracking 4: (70,000xp) 1029 creatures or 6,135 total

That's over the course of the Ranger profession (including achieving Master Scout). If a player does not pass Novice Marksman and does not pass CL1 they must kill and harvest approximately6,135 creautres.


6,135


Trapping:Each trap thrown removes the player from a few seconds of combat. The result makes the Scout/Ranger vulnerable for at least one hit and causes them to do NO damage while throwing the trap.


The result, opens the CL1 Scout to a great deal of damage from a CL 1 White Con Creature.


We'll leave the Trapping section blank for now. As I stated I haven't done extensive trap testing and I want to be 100% accurate when I get to it. It's something I'll be looking at tonight.


I'll be updating this shortly to see what I can find in relation to this experiment.



What's this mean? This is not an attempt to be either positive or negative. My goal, simply, is to outline the currently available information.



I've removed all references to Novice Combat because a new player can become a scout AND kill CL1 creatures WITHOUT any Novice Combat.

Message Edited by WildBil2Me on 04-11-2005 10:44 PM



Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com
Phenix1050
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:52 pm
#2

I'll also link to this for the CU: Hunting Viability thread.



PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
WornTraveler
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:59 pm
#3

Hm- that is so sad. Just think of the carnage: thousands of chubas must die!


At least there will be no lack of grind resources on the bazaar, eh?



Gledako Fo'Kray- Retired Master Ranger
Encoded until further notice!
Proud Captain of the YT1300 Vasarian Escape- Confirmed Stats from Last Battle- at least 3 kills, 5 disables, 2 spacebombs to the rear shielding and 4 snubs to take us down. Go crew!
Current one-on-one win-loss ratio for the Escape and her Crew- 11:1

Gledako -- Mercenary Dog of Spice --
MalekofTat
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:59 pm
#4

Not sure if you want us to post to this thread and I will kindly delete this if not. Just had to say - THIS is the kind of documentation and analysis that will bring about corrections and change to our profession. Easy to follow,no emotions or snipes and a dev's dream for a study on the ongoing Combat Update.


I have been guilty of a few emotional posts in my time but seeing stuff like this makes me think that if all our posts were like this in the Ranger forum - few if any could argue against ourgood intentioned effortsand the world would be a better place.


Fantastic job.



"Why he's just a raggedy man."
Gilamu
Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:47 pm
#5

Excellent work - you are a far more thorough and patient person than I.


To me, the most interesting part was your observation that trapping leaves the Scout/Ranger vulnerable. Sort of defeats the purpose unless the creature's state lasts longer than the player's down time.


Would give you 5 stars if I could. I do give you my thanks and appreciation.




Gilamu ti'Caro

Imperial Colonel, Elder Ranger
Captain of my Fate, Master of my Soul
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:11 pm
#6






WildBil2Me wrote:

Trapping:Each trap thrown removes the player from a few seconds of combat. The result makes the Scout/Ranger vulnerable for at least one hit and causes them to do NO damage while throwing the trap.





This I'm not sure about.

It's either a bug or intended, but throwing a number of traps do damage.


If I throw a p-dart I get a default combat message (like shooting with gun) and doing dmg with the gun.

I assume it's a bug tough.
WildBil2Me
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:21 pm
#7






Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:





WildBil2Me wrote:

Trapping:Each trap thrown removes the player from a few seconds of combat. The result makes the Scout/Ranger vulnerable for at least one hit and causes them to do NO damage while throwing the trap.





This I'm not sure about.

It's either a bug or intended, but throwing a number of traps do damage.


If I throw a p-dart I get a default combat message (like shooting with gun) and doing dmg with the gun.

I assume it's a bug tough.






You mean you throw a trap... and the target takes damage?


Right now, if you throw a trap you automatically enter combat. If you have an Auto - Attack set then you throw the trap and simultaneously attack.


Check the combat log and you'll see the green text that signifies an attack and it will say you used the special that you have set as your auto.


Example: My auto is "Placed Shot." I walk up to a Vrobal and toss a trap. At the same time teh Vrobal takes 170ish damage.


When I check my combat log I see the following:


WildBil attacks a vrobalet with Placed Shot using Spraystick and hits for 436 points (343 points of kinetic damage and 93 points of heat damage).

Your trap failed to affect the target

A vrobalet attacks WildBil ...


Right now I'm assuming its a bug ... the trap has no warm up or cool down and is thus stepping on the toes of the combat action. They occur together for now. I'm pretty sure this isn't as intended though.



Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:23 pm
#8

Yes traps are outside of the comabt "queue". Start combat with a trap and you will clearly see this. Turn on time stamps and only use the autoattack and you'll see it very clearly. If you just watch your toons animations you are going to be all messed up.

All "items" that I have used in comabt sutch as Stims, Traps, and Grenades do the same thing. I think it would be to complex for them to do other wise. Grenades and Stims have have long timers, traps short ones (when not bugged that is).

I'm a 2/4/4/3 Scout and am Level 14 (Novice Rifleman).
WildBil2Me
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:25 pm
#9






agent156 wrote:
Yes traps are outside of the comabt "queue". Start combat with a trap and you will clearly see this. Turn on time stamps and only use the autoattack and you'll see it very clearly. If you just watch your toons animations you are going to be all messed up.

All "items" that I have used in comabt sutch as Stims, Traps, and Grenades do the same thing. I think it would be to complex for them to do other wise. Grenades and Stims have have long timers, traps short ones (when not bugged that is).

I'm a 2/4/4/3 Scout and am Level 14 (Novice Rifleman).






Bacta shot works on the combat timer. I'm not sure of any of the "item" stims or even grenades.


The thing with Bacta though is whether you change targets or not, using the bacta shot changes your target and you stop engaging in an auto attack.





Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:34 pm
#10

The trap does throw at the end of a cool down if there is one. Sims Etc. do the same. Weapon/armor switches seem to do the same.
Phenix1050
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:46 pm
#11

the problem is that since there is no unique cooldown timer you could theoretically throw very large number of traps before initiating another actions.



PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:00 pm
#12

There is a delay. A single stack will spam.. er would, haven't tested that in a bit. I need to do that. But that is pointless unless you are grinding trap XP. I'm sure it will get fixed if it hasn't already.

Poping 3 kinds of traps each gets a small delay. Check out the Trap thread.
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:02 pm
#13

Single trap stack have the delay
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