Ranger Archive
Thread: Rangers!! When camo kit goes live........
BioEngine wrote:
Nothing? Are you sure?
Really?
Because from what I can see, if they would give the abilities to RIflemen and Jedi outside of their revamps, then what chance do we have since we have been asking for this for 2 years?
There are chances, and they are the logic of the Devs, the opinions of the Devs, the restrictions imposed on the Devs by their supervisors or "higher ups," and whether or not someone will complain that giving us radar invisibility as well would be unbalancing.
Yes. I'm positive.
Really.
Camo kits could work like that. Just because everybody can use them now, doesn't limit the potential of the kits for us.
Sounds to me like you just want to complain about things we might not get in a revamp that hasn't even been announced yet. How silly.
Eavik wrote:
Try reading my signature - it has all my professions listed there.
Ever read mine?Never changed it since I'm always afraid to delete it for fear of losing my "style" tag. (it's a guilty pleasure)
Damned devs don't want me using my style tag.......messed up my format too.....*eye squint*
Though i'm sure having "ranger" on my tag would make me legit too huh?
Make sure you understand the issue before you try to debate. There are two entirely seperate debates.
First, is the uniqueness of the ranger skillset and template. If everyone get's camo because crafters need it, then I think along those same lines a more effective solution is to give Feign Death to everyone. That's about the best and most comparible solution. Smugglers have been ignored and disrespected for about as long as Rangers, they've been through a few changes that hurt their profession, but didn't dilute their skillset as badly as rangers have.And if you really want to get to the extreme, we should make sure that everyone can buff themselves because crafters need it so they can survive the trips to their harvestors too.
The second issue is that these items have never been useful enoughto rangers to make the resource cost worthwhile. That hasn't changed, for Rangers. Selling them obviously isn't a big thing that would make me want to all of a sudden start looking for the resources and start crafting them.
Had someone send me a tell today, here's how the conversation went:
ok where can I get your camo kits?
I have to make them for you, which planets did you want?
every single one.. how much? is it one use per kit b y the way?
I have to collect 32 different resources to make them all, from 11 different planets. If the resources aregood, I can expirament them up to 15 uses per kit. You'll use about 5 to 7 kits on a round trip to the village and back.
yowzas, no thanks than, i dont want to casue you so much trouble.
ComCypher wrote:Almagill wrote:
There is quite literally now no reason to take or keep the concealment line of Ranger EXCEPT as a CRAFTER making the kits to sell on.I grow weary of repeating myself, it appears that every single attempt I've made to bring clairvoyance to this thread was fallen into the pit of flames. But I will try one more time. The only difference between now and before is that a ranger no longer has to physically apply the camo to a non-ranger. That is the only difference. How does the fact that the ranger no longer has to be physically standing right next to the non-ranger decrease the uniqueness of the profession, or change the profession in any (negative) way? I CANNOT COMPREHEND THIS!
If you stop repeating yourself long enough to consider what I actually wrote you might see that we are in effect making the same argument from different angles.As long as you insist on dealing in absolutes people will disagree with your argument. My position, in so far as the above statement is concerned is that, with regards camoflague, there is no reason to take or retain the concealment line of Ranger, unless you wish to actually make the cammo kits in bulk to sell on. (I am leaving the fact that you NEED to take the line to get Master Ranger out as it's blindingly obvious.)
If you only need them for personal use, save the skill points and invest them in a profession that gives you some combat defence and offence modfiers. Buy the kits off a local crafting ranger who is willing to sell them on.
"How does the fact that the ranger no longer has to be physically standing right next to the non-ranger decrease the uniqueness of the profession, or change the profession in any (negative) way? I CANNOT COMPREHEND THIS!"
Calm down dear. It's only a lifestyle.
I'll deal with this one point as it seems to be the bit thats bugging you most.
It is now no longer necessary for a player to invest the time, effort and skill points to gain access to an ability that was previously exclusive to Rangers. That is, the ability to apply camo to themselves in order to attempt to avoice detectionby creatures or NPC's.
This diminishes the profession as it removes, or rather, dilutes one of our skills.
If a player can conceal themselves and gain the benefit of that skill with no investment of time, effort or SP they effectively gain a 'free' skill.
There is, therefore, no reason for that player to invest any time, effort or SP in the concealment tree of Ranger unless they themselves wish to have the ability to make the camo kits.
As they can have the ability to USE the camo kits for 0 point investment, then the only motivation for taking the line is to CRAFT the kits.
The only motivation for crafting the kits seems to be to be able to do it in bulk to sell on to kit users (including rangers who are saving the SP that would previously have been invested in that line to use elsewhere)
Therefore I stand by my original statement of "There is quite literally now no reason to take or keep the concealment line of Ranger EXCEPT as a CRAFTER making the kits to sell on."
Almagill wrote:
Me? Personally I'm going to pick up a crate of Dath cammo kits [from] a local master ranger and I no longer need to retake that entire line of Ranger.You just shot your argument in the proverbial foot with this statement. If every ranger thought this way, you would have difficulty getting those dath kits wouldn't you! Looks like you are going to have to rely ona ranger who took that "worthless" branch if you want to camo yourself eh? It is remarkable to me that no one else (besides one or two people) can see the irony (nay, the hypocrisy)in this...
Shot myself in the foot? On the contrary, my comment above, that I'll be buying Dath kits form a local Master Ranger is entirely consistent with my position that I no longer need to invest skill points in that particular line unless I am intending crafting kits. It also highlights the absurdity of handing a MASTER RANGERs skill / tools to somebody who potentially has zero investment in the profession. Yet somehow you cannot see how that dilutes the value of the profession?
Again you are dealing in absolutes. "If every ranger thought this way". If every ranger thought that way, I'd simply reMaster and start selling the kits on. You consistently assume that I am opposed to selling camo kit to people. As I have said onseveral occasions, there will be those who craft and use, those who craft and sell and those who buy and use. Believe it or not, there has always been ,within the ranger community, a number of rangers who sell kits to each other. You constantly fixate on the idea that 'all' rangers are opposed to selling kits and completely miss the point that it's the 0 skill point access to the use of those kits that is giving most people who have expressed an opinion on this a problem.
"Worthless" branch? YOUR words mate, not mine. I have said, time and again, that there is a value on this branch of the Ranger tree. Stating thefact that there is now no need to spend the SP to get access to the ability that that line represents however is by no means the same as saying that that line is worthless. The fact that rangers and NON rangers can access the skills of this branch for zero SP investment devalues the line, as a part of the profession, but it does not render it worthless.
And as for your charge of hypocrisy. I suggest that you go back and find where I said that I would never use another rangers camo kits. Again you are making assumptions based on your own prejudice against people who hold a different opinion to yours and your determination to be seen to 'win' the argument.
SeanBlader wrote:
If everyone get's camo because crafters need it, then I think along those same lines a more effective solution is to give Feign Death to everyone. That's about the best and most comparible solution.
That is what is colloquially known as an apples to oranges comparison. For one thing,non-smugglers have never been able to feign death,with a smuggler's assistance or otherwise. Secondly, feign death isn't an item, it's a skill. I provided much more accurate comparisons earlier in this thread--everyone can use image designers' holoemotes, everyone can use pets, everyone can benefit from a squadleader's skills. As far as I know no one from any of these professions has ever complained that their professions were "outsourced" to the general public. This seems to be a new problem invented by the ranger community.
SeanBlader wrote:
The second issue is that these items have never been useful enoughto rangers to make the resource cost worthwhile. That hasn't changed, for Rangers. Selling them obviously isn't a big thing that would make me want to all of a sudden start looking for the resources and start crafting them.
This is a much more substantial problem. This is the sort of thing we should be devoting our energy towards fixing, not the silly issue of who can actually apply the stuff.
ComCypher wrote:
That is what is colloquially known as an apples to oranges comparison. For one thing,non-smugglers have never been able to feign death,with a smuggler's assistance or otherwise. Secondly, feign death isn't an item, it's a skill. I provided much more accurate comparisons earlier in this thread--everyone can use image designers' holoemotes, everyone can use pets, everyone can benefit from a squadleader's skills. As far as I know no one from any of these professions has ever complained that their professions were "outsourced" to the general public. This seems to be a new problem invented by the ranger community.
Feign Death may not be the best analogy. I prefer slicing. You can have a Smuggler slice your weapons oryour armor, just by asking them. Now if everyone could buy a laser knife and slice their own things, I would say you might have a problem.. wouldn't you?
Everyone can have a pet... But you still need to find the CH to have it trained. No vendor bought pet (BE only of course) is going to do you much good.
Holoemotes... Have to find an ID to get one. You can't buy them off a vendor.
Squadleader skills.. Once again. Without the Squad Leader there. you can't use the skills.
Next?
Actually now that you mention it, that's true... The more accurate skill to compare is Mask Scent, LOL!!! Doesn't require any resources, doesn't work in PvP anymore, it's the one to compare. And Camo is "supposed" to be a step up.
ComCypher wrote:
That is what is colloquially known as an apples to oranges comparison. For one thing,non-smugglers have never been able to feign death,with a smuggler's assistance or otherwise. Secondly, feign death isn't an item, it's a skill.