Ranger Archive
Thread: The Outdoorsman...
"At no point are you ever literally invisible. I am just talking about radar."
Ok...
In order to remove a player from radar, the coordinates of that player can not be sent to the client for any reason. If they were sent to the client, a resourceful hacker would simply change the radar code to use those coordinates, and redisplay the dot.
But... In order to display the character on the main window, the client must know the coordinates of the player.
Hence: Either we have complete invisibility,or none at all.
Now, unless the developers come back and state that they condone complete invisibility, I willgo on the presumption that it is not on the table.
Lorell wrote:
I just hope the devs are aware that we are talking about two different things. I'm not talking about complete invisibility. I am proposing invisibility on radar only. Not to mention that it is based on skill checks. It will never be 100% because eventually rangers will fail. Line of sight will still be possible even if the ranger was successful in their conceal ability and are not on radar.
Ok, so I understand that you want us (us being the Ranger Community), through NRaas to ask the Devs to implement invisibility on the radar, not complete invisibility. And I agree that the devs might even agree to give us this ability.
It is my contention, however, that asking for invisibility on the Radar is a bad idea. Why? Because of the reasons NRaas mentioned in his last post:
- In order to make your character appear on the screen (regardless of whether the character's position appearson the radar), the server must send each player a packet with your location and attributes (what weapon you are holding, how long your nose is, etc) so that the other players' clients can draw your character on the screen correctly.
- Players can easily use a "packet sniffer" program that can recognize the packet sent from the server to the client containing your location and attributes, even if the server does not send information to the client about your radar position so your dot does not show on his radar.
- This renders the ability USELESS!
- In short, if Rangers are given this skill, most of the pvp'ers in SWG would just get a packet sniffer program, and would be able to know the concealed Ranger's location even though the Ranger is not onhis or herRadar. Hence, the skill is useless, the devs have wasted time and effort coding a skill that is useless, and the Ranger community is back to complaining about our lack of effectiveness in pvp.
As for complete invisibility, that is another matter that NRaas has already covered.
"hey BH's...bet you wish you had NRass"
That was a great write up.....
Excellent job. How do you ever find the time
.
Lythender Nirou
Eclipse Server
When I read the Ranger description, the first thing I imagined was being able to do recon missions into enemy held areas. Movement bonus and such seemed a good start. But with the radar, it's really a non-starter. So if there's a chance to get that hurdle crossed, I think it would be great.
What can't happen, is a situation where the invisible target can attack from invisibility. I understand all the "green beret" analogies and such and it's an accurate sentiment, from that point of view. But from a gameplay standpoint, it's a real back-breaker in PvP.
And only having "radar invisibility" is an issue from the user perspective. Variances in clipping plane, lag "jumps" and such would mean that you'd often wander right into the very group your were attempting to view. Without the cover of invisibility, you'd get clobbered everytime you attempted to use such a skill.
So I think NRaas' approach is correct. I would bet that its a metaphysical certainty that the dev's would put the kabosh on any flavor of invisibility that included a capability to lauch a first strike.
- A command called /hide available at Master Ranger
- The Player must be wearing a ghillie suit to enact the skill, restricting the commands use to Rangers.
- The quality of the ghillie suit dictates the chance of being revealed during the duration of the command.
- The command would immediately place the player into a prone position
- The character would vanish completely off radar and from the main window
- If the player performs any action, movements or otherwise, the player will be instantly revealed
- Upon being revealed a 10 second timer is initiated where the player is unable to initiate combat
- If the player is attacked by someone else however, the timer ends and the player can retaliate immediately
- A player can not use /hide again until this timer runs out
- If the player is attacked by someone else however, the timer ends and the player can retaliate immediately
- The command can not be performed while in combat
I noticed a potential PvP exploit when I read through this. If a ranger is using /hide in an enemy base, and has a friend standing more than 64m away, then they would be able to set up a strategy where the ranger reveals him or herself, gets quickly challenged to a duel by the friend, which erases the 10 second timer because the ranger has been attacked. Then they could both /endduel and the ranger would be able to attack an actual enemy almost immediately after being revealed, rather than needing to wait 10 seconds. You may want to add a line stating that the ranger cannot initiate or accept a duel until the 10 second timer has run out.
Camps have following inherent functionality:
- The ability to logout safely
- A default healing modifier of 0.10
I believe that the current base heal modifier on the basic scout camp is .5, so you may want to up the .1 a bit, or else this will be a nerf.
Evacuation Shuttle
- Module Level: 4
- Module Type: Humanoid
- Profession: Artisan
- Cost: Expensive (24)
- Description:
- A shuttle port that allows players to transport back to town.
- It would not allow players to travel to the camp however.
- A camp with this module would only be deployable by a Faction member, and usable only by members of that faction.
You do already list this as expensive, but you should probably make sure that it is expensive enough to not be worth using every time a ranger needs to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle. You could have a situation where a ranger sets up a camp just outside of town, and allows people to shuttle to other areas on the planet through that camp rather than waiting for the regular shuttle to arrive in the town.
Amazing job overall, NRaas!
NRaas,
I fantastic vision. It is my true hope that it is implemented. I was about the 6th Master Ranger on my server and truly enjoyed the profession. However I gave it up and it was a sad day that I did it. I still miss my hi tech field bases.
If evenhalf of this were put in you would find that this ex Master Ranger would return to his calling and agian take up the camo kit.
I applaud you on your vision and fully support allof the Rangers out there.
Arramon Master BE/CH
Retired Master Ranger
PithrenDarkstar wrote:
You do already list this as expensive, but you should probably make sure that it is expensive enough to not be worth using every time a ranger needs to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle. You could have a situation where a ranger sets up a camp just outside of town, and allows people to shuttle to other areas on the planet through that camp rather than waiting for the regular shuttle to arrive in the town.Amazing job overall, NRaas!
The cost to calling the shuttle could possibly be in faction points. I don't think NRaas wants to complicate the descriptions too much at this point so as not to limit various options in the future. but you are right, we can't have a "my own personal shuttle" ability at all. I imagine the devs will put a big line thru that one simply due to the fact that it'll be very complicated to balance.
Ok so not invisibility but maybe turning us into Yellow dots like noticed was mentioned somewhere, thus blending in with nature ( only creatures are yellow)
So if that was the case, then in wouldnt work so well in town because how often do you see creatures in town, not often and people would pick up on it ( that a ranger was present) and TAB to you. but! If we were fighting out in the wild it would work better because we may get mixed in with the widllife! Which is exactly where our skills should lie.. Discuss ( or was this already discussed? I get mixed up with all the posts)
Svengali666 wrote:
Ok so not invisibility but maybe turning us into Yellow dots like noticed was mentioned somewhere, thus blending in with nature ( only creatures are yellow)
Creatures and NPC's or anything that is attackable. I thought of this too, but don't you think any player who sees a yellow dotcoming their way will be very suspicious of it? as it is now, all MOBs move in a very predictable fasion, they move slowly and very little over short distances. Changing color would be a cool ability, but IMO not nearly as effective as a negative to-hit mod with abilities that play off the skill.
Eklectrick wrote:
Svengali666 wrote:
Ok so not invisibility but maybe turning us into Yellow dots like noticed was mentioned somewhere, thus blending in with nature ( only creatures are yellow)
Creatures and NPC's or anything that is attackable. I thought of this too, but don't you think any player who sees a yellow dotcoming their way will be very suspicious of it? as it is now, all MOBs move in a very predictable fasion, they move slowly and very little over short distances. Changing color would be a cool ability, but IMO not nearly as effective as a negative to-hit mod with abilities that play off the skill.
yea in town it would be noticeable immediately. But maybe not in the wild when there are dots all over your screen. Maybe that yellow dot making its way towards you would be less of interest than the reds everywhere else.
besides if your outright running at the enemy, you cant expect to be camo'd from his/her view can you? of course you would have to be slower and sneaky about it. probably prone even. Because wouldnt that be how you hunt live game in RL? Just because your wearing a ghille suit you dont come barrelling down on the target! hehe
Does that help clear up confusion so far?