Ranger Archive

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SeanBlader wrote:

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Temujin23 wrote:

Realistically, I think our best hope at this point is for Blixtev to play a Ranger character, realize that we have major problems, and give us more attention in his spare time on the weekend then we've ever gotten in the last two years combined.

al-djinn'i

Master Ranger

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Not to rain on your parade, or even misquote a Developer, but at FanFest after hours, Blixtev said, "I mean who really know's what a Star Wars 'Ranger' is supposed to be?" I'm about 90% sure that's what he said, and granted it was after hours, and he'd had a few beers too, but I believe that there isn't really a defining role for rangers by SOE, LA, and while we have several, there is always support and idea's for new definitions, which could water down all the other idea's. In reality, I don't believe any of our idea's or role definitions matter at this point because I don't think any of the developers actually look at our forum. I just think it'd be nice to have a "Ranger Role Defined" sticky post to help the developers understand where a majority of the interested players would like to see us go.

The first stumbling block I see to any definition of a Ranger is an agreement on which 2 trees of Scout should be our Pre-reqs. There is one thing I will tell you for certain, they will not Balance a profession with a skill cost that much different than all the others. Having the highest requirements is not a benefit, it's a determent to them looking at us. Personally I like trapping and hunting, as ranger bases should be a step above scout camps, without being defined or limited by them, and that would give the Wayfaring tree a boost in that it doesn't bump your crawl speed, it bumps your normal terrain negotiation if you decide to not pick up the Exploration tree.

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Yes, they did all seem to reinforce that after-hours as much as I fought against it myself. The devs at fanfest and C3 both didn't have a clear definition of us (both the drinking devs and the ones who drank water). One of them said "you range".. um, yea that was as smart as us being told (right after the vet rewards system was implemented) "we couldn't let the early adoptors who preordered choose between 2 different exclusive items because we've never done that before and it would be a huge undertaking"

I would love to argue with you against that... make it worth the skillpoints but given the reaction I was getting face-to-face I'm afraid you're right.

Ive laid all my thoughts out before and I know a lot of you have read them, even if you thought it was a bit long to post on or read so Im going to bullet post to the best of my ability.

Rangers need to do four things to make them stand out as unique from a mere double combat elite:

Concealment: The ability to hide from your enemies

Detection: The ability to discover hidden enemies

Determent: The ability to restrict movement on your terrain

Entrenchment: The idea of a camp becoming more than just a tent but a military compound that can actually be defended rather than just repelling....

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ZalokOnan wrote:
While I have to agree with the possibility that we will probably get cut down to two trees I will absolutely and completely be against such a change as ranger "should" be building on the complete ideals of what the basics are in scout. This means everything, not just a few ideas in scout. Our skills should stack with what we learn in the basics, not serve as an alternative for them. As an example if it turns out to be indeed trapping and hunting... why would I find it necessary to learn up ranger when I can get comprable skills just from master scout? (Maskscent/Conceal and Terrain Negotiation) It just doesn't make sense why anyone would stick with ranger after that.... Basically the only thing we'd still have is mods and our harvesting bonus... where is the fun in that? Ive had fun roleplaying a ranger for two years now and I want to ACTUALLY have the skills that Ive pretended to have. Trapping and Hunting might make the most sense from a perspective of our current skills but if we reinforce that wall, that wall will be all we have left, the rest of the house will collapse all around it. Im not certain at all that I will stay if they cut to two trees, but if it IS indeed trapping/hunting I will guarantee one less ranger among you, because its not giving us anything except what we already have, and Im already tired enough of that empty shell. Weapon certs/Combat mods might be enough for all of you but its not enough for me, I want the complete package.

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I'm not saying it because I like it, I'm saying it because you will not see any improvments or changes to the ranger profession while it still requires a novice mastery. This is your first decision to make, like it or not. Now you can make a suggestion or you can quit the profession.

I say the benefits of dropping two scout trees seriously outweigh the benefits of never getting any attention. I am of the opinion that the Wayfaring tree is a direct copy of the Exploration tree, and if you wanted to have the overlap you could choose to keep Exploration. Or you could drop it, and instead of using MaskScent, you could use what should be a vastly superior Ranger version which would be conceal. If you're hanging onto the terrain negotiatian, you need to ask yourself, how often are you actually moving while prone, if you're a Rifleman and getting setup for a sniper shot, then this would be worthwhile. If you're a melee ranger, 50 points of terrain negotiation are wasted right now as a Master Ranger. And once you're novice ranger, have you ever gone back and used the smaller camps? If you have then you should absolutely pickup those skills. You could make arguments for all 4 trees being pre-reqs, I just put out my preferences.

Now while you're opinion for not picking up ranger if the skills are duplicated is a good point, you're not seeing the point of a "Revamp" What if Maskscent still only worked against creatures, and Camoflauge turned out to work against everything allowing you to become a recon unit in the field. Well then *IS* Camoflauge really building upon "Maskscent" that much? So what if Scout camps are still little tents and torches. But Rangers Field Bases have agro repellent, and working laser fences, and the option for stages or field hospitals or landing beacons. All of a sudden Scout skills don't look nearly as appealing, neither are Ranger skills built off them, but they are more an example of the Rangers role as a forward recon unit for the GCW.

For examples of balancing of professions with vastly different skill requirements, please refer to the pre-CU Bounty Hunter, Commando, and Combat Medic skillsets. It wasn't until the CU and all the skill requirements were brought into line that the professions were truely balanced. Sure there are still some dabblers out there but the highest end skills are placed in the Master Boxes to encourage mastering, Jedi hunting, Rezzing, etc.

If you want to be a Ranger, you should get used to the idea that you're not a super scout, but something else entirely. If you want to be super scout, you still can, but then you're not picking up any Medic, or any FS skills, or maybe those few boxes in CH that could really help you hunt a lot more efficiently.

Read your proposal Zalok, liked it a lot, and appreciate your enthusiasm, but can you really say that the profession will happen with the same requirements? If you can imagine that actually happening then you're a lot more optimistic than I am. You should apply for the correspondant position.

Thanks for the kind words, I might actually consider the corr position if I had more confidence that in another month or two I would still be a ranger, but as I agree that a two tree change is probably inevitable, and that most of the two tree combinations would only serve to hold us exactly where we are right now for the next 2-10 years, that I cant see myself with the title while we fade into further obscurity. There is actually a compromise solution, but Im not sure that many rangers would endorse it... I find myself cringing at it even whilst admiring its simplicity. I will post it and see what people think.

Why does two prerequisite trees in scout have to limit all of ranger to the effectiveness of those two trees? If that were the case then I want my proton carbine back from the bounty hunters because they have absolutely no claim to carbines at all with no pre-req's for it. I want the alliance needler carbine from combat medics and I want the E5 from Squad Leaders.

a convincing argument on the face of it, but one that I think will not fly in our case. Bounty hunters have claim to learning specialized weapons, but despite knowing how to use that weapon they are still not going to be the most effective with it unless they also pick up master carbines to go with it. We, on the other hand, add to skills we've learned, and that has alway been how people are percieving us. Our trapping doesn't include +100 from ranger, our camping doesn't include +100 from ranger, we are dependent on scout for half of those mods and in order to have our stuff as better we have to have the skill tree that calls upon those.