Ranger Archive
Thread: Time to rock the old boat. I say remove foraging!
Owen-Lars
Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:37 am
#92
Bah lost my post but basically:
You forage for items and have 2 avenues to take, craft into short terms buffs and use, or take those short terms buffs and use them in an advanced crafting stage using your campfire to create more exotic and advanced survival/recovery items such as cures etc.
3 stages in the forage system:
- Foraging ofcomponents (herbs, planets, fruit, rain water)
- Combining to create paste (created short term buff effects)
- Creating advanced items from the paste and other items (cures, remedies, antidotes)
Example in action
- Forage for items needed for paste
- Add items into pestle and mortar (ranger crafting tool)
- Create paste
- Apply paste to gain effects (such as short term regen stat increases, added poison/disease resists etc)
You could also take the paste you make and choose to make an advanced items from it:
- Create paste (for example poison resist paste)
- Forage for other items needed including rain water
- Add items tocooking potin the region of a camp fire
- Create solution (for instance cooking the item using the camp fire would turn poison resist effects into poison partial cure, i.e. power reduction effect)
- Drink solution and gain benefits.
I drafted out this very long post going into all the details but unfortunatly the damn thing didnt save last night (was half way through) so instead and probly got pak's benefit there is just these bullets highlighting the direction.
The only difference being in this outlook is its a simplified version (on a basic level we make basic and advanced items using components) and it ties into camp survival a little more by requiring you to be inside a camp to make all the long terms beneficial items and cures.
Hodokie
Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:20 am
#93
I like what Owen-Lars had to say refference this early on in the thread. imho, the skill should be enhanced and not be done away with. Just my two credits.
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:33 am
#94
OK, quick example here (I hope you will see my reasoning):
Rangers want to be self sufficient (which goes against everything the devs have stated about professions in this game). To do this, many people want mini-buffs and disease cures, etc. Those are Doctor skills.
Now, consider that Doctors want to be self sufficient. They need meat to make their meds. They then decide they want to have Scout Harvesting built into their profession. How would that make you feel?
Can you now see why I don't think we should go around asking for other profession's skills, even if they are watered down versions of them?
JeCy
Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:34 am
#95
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
OK, quick example here (I hope you will see my reasoning):
Rangers want to be self sufficient (which goes against everything the devs have stated about professions in this game). To do this, many people want mini-buffs and disease cures, etc. Those are Doctor skills.
Now, consider that Doctors want to be self sufficient. They need meat to make their meds. They then decide they want to have Scout Harvesting built into their profession. How would that make you feel?
Can you now see why I don't think we should go around asking for other profession's skills, even if they are watered down versions of them?
No, its not that at all,, Soo spice dealers hurtchefs, chefs ruin docs bussiness?. There should be more than one way to do something, no matter what it is. you can live off loot if you want too, you can eat only chef food, and screw doc buffs, i do it all the time. You can use stims and spice and not sue chefs food orbe buffed, you can buff and not use stims, you can camp rest and not use either.. And what about TKA and meditate?? thats a mini buff, and zab's and a power boost and equiliberium, Wookies have roar which is sorta like some brawler skills.. do you propose we take out all of these?? i sure hope not
All thse posts are about enhancing what is already there, and adding more ways of doing somthing, which im all for.. im soo sick of the buff 2800, 90% comp geo-stun def stackers clones, it makes me sick.. As an armorer i got soo sick of making comp i havent made a suit in over 9 months. ! this game needs more flavor and CR is going to do that.
There are tons of ways that forage can add to the game with out hurting it. One way would be to use foraged things as enhancers to what we already have.. A herb added to chef food to make a larger boost in duration, A fungus in a combat medic poision to increase a tick, an herb to a stim pack to increase over all power. There are already these itmes in the game as loot drops, but foraging could be another alternative to get them.
And rangers still will need other classes, as it is now you DONT need a doc to heal your deisease, it jsut takes longer, you dont need a anti poison buff, you dont need buffs, But you DO need weapons, unless your a tka and dont use a knuckle, perhaps food and bio-clothing, maybe some power ups,, blah balh blah.. They will still be very reliant on other profs for a nice symbiotic relationship. Being self seficent on a hunt?? we already are, and soo are scouts for that matter.. soo really your whole argument just doesnt hold water.. from purely the, I need a doc point of veiw. And you are completly missing the fact that 80% of combat classes dont have any scout at all, hell many dont even have medic. It would be like saying that med centers ruin dancers and muscians bussiness cuase you can camp off all your wounds in there, and BF really doesnt do crap besides lower your med use.. ive hunted for weeks with 700 BF..
:
uts away needle and stops poking holes in bubble...
uts away needle and stops poking holes in bubble...Je'Cy
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:52 am
#96
JeCy wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
OK, quick example here (I hope you will see my reasoning):
Rangers want to be self sufficient (which goes against everything the devs have stated about professions in this game). To do this, many people want mini-buffs and disease cures, etc. Those are Doctor skills.
Now, consider that Doctors want to be self sufficient. They need meat to make their meds. They then decide they want to have Scout Harvesting built into their profession. How would that make you feel?
Can you now see why I don't think we should go around asking for other profession's skills, even if they are watered down versions of them?
No, its not that at all,, Soo spice dealers hurtchefs, chefs ruin docs bussiness?. There should be more than one way to do something, no matter what it is. you can live off loot if you want too, you can eat only chef food, and screw doc buffs, i do it all the time. You can use stims and spice and not sue chefs food orbe buffed, you can buff and not use stims, you can camp rest and not use either.. And what about TKA and meditate?? thats a mini buff, and zab's and a power boost and equiliberium, Wookies have roar which is sorta like some brawler skills.. do you propose we take out all of these?? i sure hope not
Nowhere did I say that TKA meditate was OK, nor did I suggest removingredundant skills (nice try).
All thse posts are about enhancing what is already there, and adding more ways of doing somthing, which im all for.. im soo sick of the buff 2800, 90% comp geo-stun def stackers clones, it makes me sick.. As an armorer i got soo sick of making comp i havent made a suit in over 9 months. ! this game needs more flavor and CR is going to do that.
You are for providing different ways to do things...what is your take on giving harvesting to other professions? What about giving aretrack to BH? So, you don't like Doc buffs? Don't use them. You use food to buff yourself? Great, but why add the ability to buff yourself to Ranger then?
There are tons of ways that forage can add to the game with out hurting it. One way would be to use foraged things as enhancers to what we already have.. A herb added to chef food to make a larger boost in duration, A fungus in a combat medic poision to increase a tick, an herb to a stim pack to increase over all power. There are already these itmes in the game as loot drops, but foraging could be another alternative to get them.
These are fine ideas (and I can agree to the more thanbuffs, or poison/disease resists), BUT they are already available. I am curious, do you like getting tells from leet d00dz asking for your tracking services or hunting serivces constantly? Do you want to become a tool for Docs/Chefs/CMs to get powerups for their wares? I fear the day when the Ranger boards are full of "Looking for Ranger to get me CM powerups" posts.
And rangers still will need other classes, as it is now you DONT need a doc to heal your deisease, it jsut takes longer, you dont need a anti poison buff, you dont need buffs, But you DO need weapons, unless your a tka and dont use a knuckle, perhaps food and bio-clothing, maybe some power ups,, blah balh blah.. They will still be very reliant on other profs for a nice symbiotic relationship. Being self seficent on a hunt?? we already are, and soo are scouts for that matter.. soo really your whole argument just doesnt hold water.. from purely the, I need a doc point of veiw. And you are completly missing the fact that 80% of combat classes dont have any scout at all, hell many dont even have medic. It would be like saying that med centers ruin dancers and muscians bussiness cuase you can camp off all your wounds in there, and BF really doesnt do crap besides lower your med use.. ive hunted for weeks with 700 BF..
So, if you don't need a Doc to cure your disease, why forage a plant that does so? If you don't need a Poison Res, why be able to forage for it? You need weapons, you see a Weaponsmith. You need armor, you see an Armorsmith. You need a ship, you see a Shipwright. You need a poison res, or disease cure, or food buff, you see a Ranger? It shouldn't work that way.
:
Make a clear and concise argument before you comment on other's.
Je'Cy
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 01-26-2005 11:55 AM
Phenix1050
Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:56 pm
#97
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
You need a poison res, or disease cure, or food buff, you see a Ranger? It shouldn't work that way.
To address this one point, Owen and I were talking last night and basically decided that Rangers wouldn't be able to apply the herbs (such as I had described the procedure) to others, only to themselves. That prevents them from being doctors and basically makes them into exactly what i think they should be- survivalists. Getting poisoned or diseased kinda hurts your chances of survival. In those instances, you can pop a camp and slowly get your wounds healed. What foraging should be, in my opinion, is a way to help you survive. it shouldn't be a skill that removes a need for a doctor. In fact, you'll see that I try to show that a Ranger will often need healing and poison removal from doctors. The Ranger skills are designed to (and this is the key word) SLOWLY get rid of poisons and disease-- or in the case of a strong poison/disease, delay the effects of it, allowing you to seek proper medical help.
Consider the following circumstance: You're diseased! Now you have a couple of choices as a Ranger right now-- either forget it and keep fighting, or find a doctor. Now if it's a strong disease and you hunt unbuffed, you're toast. Now with my system, you could eat and herb to slow the spread of the disease, meaning that the time between ticks would be doubled. You could also pop a camp and apply the herb, slowly lowering the "level" of the disease, making it do less damage. For strong diseases, neither of these options would be equal to what a doctor can do-- which is quickly get rid of the disease entirely. There are drawbacks to each of these options, though. Ranger foods would still be fairly filling compared to their benefits, and it takes time between application of herbs, meaning that you have to wait between applications. To further reduce the power of the Ranger herbs,you could make so that the items that must be applied in a camp force you to STAY in the camp. I.E. you must wait in the camp for 1 minute before the effects actually happen. Leave before that and you lose the benefit (and the herb).
It's easy to put balance into the Ranger herbs. Doing so allows you to come close to stepping on toes without actually doing so.
Phenix1050
Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:14 pm
#99
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
That's not a bad set of stipulations Phenix (if a little complex), but it still doesn't address why we shouldn't have innate defenses vs. disease to help avoid getting diseased in the first place.
as I said before...we should get BOTH.
Divvur
Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:50 pm
#101
Please remember that this is a role-playing game, and foraging is something that is very scouty (we not even in the right forum you realise ) that should remain in the game for role-play reasons, even if it is in its current rather useless state.
) that should remain in the game for role-play reasons, even if it is in its current rather useless state.That said, I do think there is a place for foraged foods as a useful tool for a scout, here are a few points:
- They should be tradable for role-play reasons.
- They should only enhance skills that are used by Scouts, Rangers and Creature Handlers. (Not stat buffs)
- They should have a long duration (45 minutes to 1 hour).
- They should be less powerful than scout skill enhancing chef foods overall. (Why would anyone prefer to eat a bit of bark when they could have a pre-made meal from their backpack).
- They should be planet specific items, not everywhere is going to have MarojMelon trees, and with some of the skill buffs the enhanced effect only works on that planet.
-Some itemscould make optional components in Camo Kits (perhaps giving an extra charge?)
And the whacky bit:
- You can get acookingpan from a chef that has a limited number of charges that will make the bonus given by the foraged item slightly higher. Only useable within a camp.
And yes, the whole disease/poison resistance thing should be a natural Ranger ability, but it should be a skill modifier not a complete immunity. Therefore there is still room for foraged items (planet specific) that enhance this natural resistance. There should also be foraged items that have a poison healing function, so that if someone in your group is poisoned by a creature, you can find this item to reduce the poison's effect (not stop it, thats a Doc's job).
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:54 pm
#102
OK Je Cy, I am done with you. This could have potentially been a good conversation, but you can't keep things civil.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 01-26-2005 10:02 PM
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:53 am
#103
That's not a bad set of stipulations Phenix (if a little complex), but it still doesn't address why we shouldn't have innate defenses vs. disease to help avoid getting diseased in the first place.