Ranger Archive
Thread: Survival XP Changes: Your feedback
LastEE
Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:32 pm
#92
Nope, they stealth nerfed the underwater camps last time I tried on live with a nice message "you cannot setup a camp while standing in water"... Was a very sad day for this ranger 8(
Zethoun
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:14 pm
#93
Each profession has it's own pain in the ass tree. We have survival.
Survival is hard with the current system, but just remove the ability to popmedical droid without being camp and, with the CU, survival can be the fastest line to get.
when I worked for Scout/Ranger, in July/Sept 2003, Survival was the first line I finish in both tree, without using any macro or such thing, just by setting camp when hunting in group after each mission to let the medic heal everyone. The only thing that screwed camp was the med droid
Rancorrider4
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:33 pm
#94
Owen-Lars wrote:
Yup, same nemo. I dont like it one bit but you can see what angle the devs were coming from.
I just dont like it. I do not see what angle the devs are coming from. Contrary to popular belief not every single bit and piece of this game involves combat. Camps were supposed to be for relief, healing, etc. This to me is just a step to removing, rather than fixing *making worth something* them.
I really would like for this to be changed back. Like Paks said there is just no rhyme or reason for this.
Oh and to the guy that said we were WHINING......your mothers a rancor and your sister a rodian.....
Ohetie
Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:03 pm
#95
i was a ranger when the game first launched. I remember being in my camps just south of the coronet starport to get people to run through them, and i'd get loads of visitors and talked to a bunch of cool people that way, all of which were impressed with my camps. As i see it the survival branch is a right of passage for rangers.
on the other hand though looking at this from the other side, this makes your prof. open to more players and it's less likely to disscourage new comers. At least this isn't a nerf. It isn't the worst that could happen, you guys still have your camps and they're still awesome.
on the other hand though looking at this from the other side, this makes your prof. open to more players and it's less likely to disscourage new comers. At least this isn't a nerf. It isn't the worst that could happen, you guys still have your camps and they're still awesome.
Ohetie
Almagill
Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:54 am
#96
PhatCohiba wrote:
Man, listen to you guys whine. I admire all of you who have done the ranger survial tree more then I have (twice). But in the end, the whole tent thing was screwed [snip]
I guess someone could use traps, but its always been faster just to shoot the damn critter.
I agree with any of the redesigns for the camp line. If camps were worthwile then fine.
Well, I don't quite know what the 'whine' was, mostly folk pointing out that making 3 lines depend on one type of XP, scrapping survival XP and not fixing camps puts us in a really poor bargaining position later on down the line.
Still, nice new XP levels in, so {happy happy joy joy} lots of tedious same flavour g.r.i.n.d.i.n.g. to look forward to, eh? and you'll never need to put a tent up again.
Nobody using them gives the dev's an entire line they can now point at and say "Hey, look, that skill is like totally redundant, let's make it 'fun and challenging'".
Jolandir
Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:03 am
#97
I think as camps now stand, as nothing but eye candy for dyed in the wool Rangers, it is a necessary change, because none of us likes sitting around for long periods of time in camp doing nothing just to get the survival XP need to fill that branch in scout/ranger.
I am hoping this is a temporary change and that camps will take on a much greater significance, as they can and should, in the future in SWG. I could see adding first aid to survival (no I don't mean doing away with doctors and medics so calm down). I mean the name is survival and we have a title Survivalist, which means absolutely nothing in truth since camps (being the only thing in suvival at all) really don't do anything any more. I could see camo camps that could be seriously used for hunting on any planet, and for military purposes which would effectively make the camps really blend in with the rest of the sceneray (even sand as in real warfare) and thus not onthe radar or overhead maps which faction forward bases do,and they visually take on the colors and hues of the terrain around it so unless you are really being careful you will not visually see these there. This would make their usefulness in forward areas or even to hide troops in them until you are right on top of them if you are not careful (obviously the same would be true of creatures and npcs).
Again adding a depth of tactics and strategy that does not exist in this game (a game about a war encompassing the entirely known universe at this time).
This could make bringing back and attaining survival XP impotant and fun.
Jolandir
Xrystal
Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:57 pm
#98
Personally I'm in two minds on this .. but then I'm 1 and a half squares away from finishing the Ranger Camping branch so still a considerable number of camps to put down ..
When I told my partner the changes that would affect my live character he thought it was strange that they did that .. he suggested something along the following which seems to make more sense ..
Current (Live) Scout/Ranger Branches:
Terrain/Masking/Camoflage - Scout XP
Harvesting/Foraging - Scout XP
Trapping - Trapping XP
Camping/Crafting/Fishing - Survival XP
Now surely Masking and Camoflage andas an escape abilityeven terrain negotiation are survival abilities so why not convert that column to add to the survival xp. Perhaps push fishing into the harvesting/foraging column. So we end up with something like the following:
Scouting XP - Harvesting/Foraging/Fishing (and Making Fishing Rods)/Terrain Negotiation?
Trapping XP - Making and Using Traps
Survival XP- Making and Using Camps/Making and Using Camoflage/Masking Scent/Terrain Negotiation?
Or (and this just came to me while writing this),to make camping more beneficial, maybe allow scouts/rangers to experiment on traps and camos when made while in a camp. The better the camp the higher the experimentation and thus encourages use of camping for other than gaining camping xp.
I apologise if this or something similar has been suggested in the past in relation to the scout/ranger revamp. Not got to reading that part of the forum yet .. :: grovels ::
Phenix1050
Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:18 pm
#99
GoldMemberBria wrote:
Former master ranger, current ranger dabbler here.
I like the change a lot personally. To me there is absolutely nothing "ranger-like" about pulling out camp after camp and sitting in them while grinding more camps or worse doing it afk. Is that fun? The people that oppose this change seem to be the "old timers" whose opposition to it is on the basis that "I went through hell to get it, therefore others should too", and I just don't agree with that line of reasoning.
For me, the reasoning against this is that it makes scout/ranger easier to get without actually teaching a skill. It makes camps useless and doesn't really make much sense. I learn how to craft a tent by sneaking by an animal? Huh? Anyway, I understand the change, even ifI don't like it.
Camps are fairly useless. Why subject people to hours and hours and hours of sitting in them while afk? First off, nobody is "forced" to go AFK. It's faster to do at the keyboard and if you use camps like they're supposed to be used (After combat) you level them up pretty quickly. First time I mastered Ranger on TC, survival was the first line I got, because I never used buffs or armor. Seems to me that going out and hunting provides a lot more fun, benefitial "ranger-like" experience, so why would you begrudge someone of working their way through the ranger tree by doing that? Part of beinga Ranger is "survival". That's doesn't always mean combat. Part of being a Ranger is near self-sufficiency. "free" wound healing is part of that?
And for those worried about people grinding through the rest of the ranger boxes via grinding camps, you need not worry. I've verified that you get no scouting xp from crafting a camp.
No, but since you can still AFK camp, and camping DOES provide scout XP, you can level all of Ranger over a few days purely AFK.
Almagill
Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:46 pm
#100
GoldMemberBria wrote:Former master ranger, current ranger dabbler here.I like the change a lot personally. To me there is absolutely nothing "ranger-like" about pulling out camp after camp and sitting in them while grinding more camps or worse doing it afk. Is that fun? The people that oppose this change seem to be the "old timers" whose opposition to it is on the basis that "I went through hell to get it, therefore others should too", and I just don't agree with that line of reasoning.I guess you just skipped over the part in the description of Ranger that says we're the experts in wilderness survival? Which is why it used to require a different form of XP to complete the camps line?imho, the removal of that extra type of XP (while I now understand in part the thinking behind it) is a bad thing for the profession and our negotiation position post-CU.Camps are fairly useless. As with any piece of equipment or skill it's only as useful or useless as you make it.Why subject people to hours and hours and hours of sitting in them while afk? Again, who is being 'forced'? What's the rush to Master? Yeah sure it gets you a higher CL now, but beyond that? Sure in the old old days of the holocrons, maybe, but now?Seems to me that going out and hunting provides a lot more fun, benefitial "ranger-like" experience, so why would you begrudge someone of working their way through the ranger tree by doing that?The converse applies to that. It seems to me that being an expert in wilderness survival is part and parcel of being a Ranger, why begrudge someone of being able to camp and gain a different form of XP and different title from those who chose not to?Anyway, the point is moot now, the change is in, it'll probably go thru as it is tied in with the CU and levels and all that funky stuff.... just remind me to say 'Hah!" when we ask for upgraded camps, with more funtionality and that are worththe effort to get and the Dev's turn round and say no, you no longer have camps other than as eye candy.And for those worried about people grinding through the rest of the ranger boxes via grinding camps, you need not worry. I've verified that you get no scouting xp from crafting a camp.I don't believe you ever did or that people were worried about camp-craft-grinding being used to get Ranger without hunting. But it does seem inconsitent to be happy to accept the exact opposite position, that somebody can get Frontiersman and the schems for all camps, by killing millions of nunas and never building a camp once....Honestly, it's not about "we did it the hard way so everyone will have to", it's about taking a bargaining chip away from us, reducing the value of the camps themselves even further and setting Ranger/Scout up for a BH flavoured spanking later on down the line when folk ask for enhancements they no longer have the 'skills' for.
Message Edited by Almagill on 04-19-2005 04:05 AM
SolaasD
Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:50 pm
#101
I'd have to say I prefer the old way via Wilderness Survival XP. I think it allowed Ranger to be more a a Stick to it persons Grind. Really only people commited to doing it would do it because of the time Wilderness XP Took.
I have been a Big fan of Ranger since I first picked it up and Wilderness Survival XP while annoying at times let you better know your Profession and learn it more thouroughly,
I just think its a bad idea to switch Frontiering to require Scout XP instead of Wilderness Survival XP. Makes for a less diverse Elite Career. Whats next Traps Give Scouting XP?!?
Dregar - TC-EP3
PhatCohiba
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:33 pm
#102
Rancorrider4 wrote:
and to the guy that said we were WHINING......your mothers a rancor and your sister a rodian.....
Man, don't go insulting rodians like that... what have they done to deserve being associated with me.
Anyway, maybe whining is the wrong word, but I still think current camps stink, and I want camps that are totally cool.
PhatCohiba
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:34 pm
#103
Now if we could have a Party tent, complete with stage, bar area and seating we could rent them out for weddings.....
TavinBek
Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:18 am
#104
I dont like it, it sort of takes away some of the feeling of accomplishment you get after mastering it. Changing it to scouting just makes it too easy and quite frankly mastering survival with out making a single camp is just ridiculous.
Just my 2 pence...