Ranger Archive

Thread: Poll: For or against automated organics harvesting?

Zapper_Weisman
Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:20 pm
#79






Phenix1050 wrote:

actually, Ranger doesn't force you into group play...unless you choose not to have a combat proffession. The game allows you to choose: hunt yourself or hunt with others. That's the beauty of the system. If you choose not to pick up combat skills, then you are essentially saying you don't mind group play. If you don't like hunting with others, pick up some combat skills. You can't have it both ways.




Picking up a combat skill or not doesnt have anything to do with a decision to group play as a Rangeror not, it has to do with what you want to do with your skill points. Because I have decided to invest in crafting, as a lot of other rangers have as well (2 out of 3 of the Rangers that I know on my server), should not dictate me to group play.


Of course, theres other Ranger things that require group play... The issue of camping, which isnt very useful unless you group play or you have one to plop down in the wild to instantly call your vehicle. Camps were designed for groups, and before vehicles and before buffs and armor were really used, you'd use a campwhen in a group a few thousand meters away from the nearest cantina. But, now? Everyone hops on their vehicle and runs off to a cantinato get healed when their buffs wear off, whether they fought in agroup or not, because they dont need healing or down time in between fights because of buffs and armor.


Trappingcould have beenuseful back in the day when everyone marvelled at someone with a Master Marksmen title and you'd see full groups of 20 attacking a squill from all sides because that was the only way to kill it, and it was considered good exp (if only master rangers had been around to throw the traps, or even a master scout). Today? A TKM kills something too fast to even land a trap most of the time (if you're supplementing, ie-group playing), and theres no point in wasting time throwing a trap yourself if you are a master combat class. So that leaves, what? 2 skills pretty useless in group, and completely useless out and one that is impossible without group play for a crafter. I took up Ranger as a supplement to BE, but learned to really love the class. "Sneaking" unbuffed and unarmored through Dath, especially since I "know" the planets (dont use waypoints or maps), is just fun, especially when the journey ends with poking an animal in the butt to get a DNA sample *evil laugh*.


I am just very disappointed that as a crafter, I cannot utilize a great ability. If we ever get a 'trap/harvestor' for organics, that is the one thing that would make us able to use the ability. I dont care if its as time consuming and intensive as hunting in its own way, as long as it doesnt require having to kill the creature, or else if all creatures in them just need a 'deathblow' that any ranger could deal out with a sliced CDEF pistol. Because the current system doesnt allow for crafters to collect organics on their own doesnt mean that if the system for organics change, we should still be left in the dust.





Jadis Stardust:
Master Bio-Engineer/Master Ranger
"You're psycho, but everyone loves your work"

>--Proud Supporter of the Annual Marina Del Rey Poodle Shoot and Barbeque!--

Phenix1050
Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:37 pm
#80






Zapper_Weisman wrote:


Because I have decided to invest in crafting... should not dictate me to group play.


Actually that's exactly what it should do. You chose to be a crafter. That's fine, more power to you. But that means that you can't kill stuff. Since only dead animals give meat, that means that you need someone else to kill stuff for you. You have yet to show me why a non-combat person should be able to harvest a creature that they don't have to kill. If you don't kill it...and nobody else killed it...how can you harvest. A tiny trap ain't gonna kill a big beastie. I say, if you want to harvest, join a group, or pick up combat. You remind me of people who ask why they should have to spend skill points on Novice Medic to heal themselves.


Of I am just very disappointed that as a crafter, I cannot utilize a great ability.


You CAN use that ability. You CHOOSE not to pick up a combat prof, and you CHOOSE not to hunt it groups. Them's the breaks.


If we ever get a 'trap/harvestor' for organics, that is the one thing that would make us able to use the ability.


That's the one thing that would allow people to get all the benefits with none of the costs. You are choosing a template that doesn't allow you to collect all the resources you'd like to by yourself. All I am seeing is that you want to have your cake and eat it too.


Because the current system doesnt allow for crafters to collect organics on their own doesnt mean that if the system for organics change, we should still be left in the dust.


Hey, you choose how you play the game. You can't be a great crafter AND a great hunter. Nobody's is responsible for your choices and I don't think the Ranger proffession should play down to this sort of thinking. An automatic meat harvester makes NO sense. What, the animal got it's foot caught in the trap...and the meat just exploded out of it's skin? Collecting large amount of certain meat can be hard, the traps should be used to collect certain animals, not to simply harvest what you want while you're off doing your crafting. This is one of those times that I need JBMat to step in and explain to you why, if you choose a certain template, you can't get all the benefits of being Master Everything.


Although, I will admit, it WOULD be funny to see the meat explode out of a Rancor.











PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
DaveG
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:03 pm
#81


Having said all that Phenix, leaving a hidden trap for a creature to walk into is exactly what an "outdoorsman" would do.


I think it's been pretty much agreed on that a stationary "harvestor" should be for ranger only and shouldn't out-perform it's creator. So, if a non-combative ranger used one of these, they still wouldn't be getting the same amount that a combative ranger should. Simply by virtue that a combative ranger could use these too, and at the same time go off hiking and make his/her own kills at the sametime.


I'm sticking with the suggestion I made earlier on, that the harvestor should just collect corpses. This way the amount of resource gatheredwill still depend on what your own harvesting skill is because you will be personally harvesting from the corpses, and it gives you the flexibility to leave choosing what to harvest until the last minute. I'm just not clear on whether you just tell it you want hide, bone or meat, or if you would manually harvest each and every corpse in there.


Another reason I like my idea (vanity aside), is that a 'machine' which 'traps' creatures and harvests hides reminds me too much of the sheering machine from "Wallace and Gromit: The wrong trousers". If you're American and don't understand this referene, let me know I'll educate you. Anyway it doesn't seem like much of a ranger thing to me. But having a bag/box/hole where you go and harvest from trapped, dead bodies does seem more ranger like.


It should also be high end ranger content to stop dabblers getting it. Could either stick it on Advanced Trapping 4, or move the dathomir camo kit to wayfaring 4 and put the harvestor/snare in the master box.


What I'm starting to think about is how would this work in real time?


Would we just drop them in the middle of no where, or would we drop them on a randomly spawned lair? Would there be a creature difficulty level limitation on them? If we drop them in the middle of no where, could we 'kite' aggro'ing creatures into it?


None of these suggestions are particularly my preference, just wondering how it'd best work in practice.

Message Edited by DaveG on 10-21-2004 01:21 AM



Freelance hunter and pilot - Available for hire.
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I didn't use buffs or uber armour, so why did the combat revamp have to spoil my game?
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Gizzygmc
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:11 pm
#82

Against. I think it would end up like some people doing 1 tree or a partial treeto avoid having to hire a ranger for certain tasks. Therefore, it would take away from our profession. I think the fishing nets idea is intruiging, but again you might have the one tree thing going. I would love to see Rangers get a higher yeild than others on fish ... I haven't seen a difference in yeilds there. The only way I would like to see the fish net idea was if it was given out as "Master Ranger" only ... not part of a tree line.


"Good Journies"

Khaelyn

Master Ranger
TheUrbanPrimate
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:53 pm
#83

There've been several posts now discussing how "dabblers" shouldn't be allowed access to these new devices (I don't want to call them harvestors or traps as what we are proposing doesn'ttechnically work like either of those pre-existing items). Now, if you've read my other posts(s), you know I'm for these devices being "Ranger Only" and you know I feel pretty strongly about folks who aren't a part of a given profession/lifestyle taking advantage of it. But, dabblers? The skill point system was essentially built for dabbling, and in a way almost everyone dabbles in one profession or another.


Keep these new devices Ranger Only, and don't allow them to be administrated/redeeded by other people so that cross-server swaps are difficult if not impossible.But if folks want to spend 77 skill points to master Scout, and then another 20 points to master one branch of Ranger... let 'em use the things. To keep the anti-dabbler folks happy put a nice lump of the bonus to use these devices in the Master Ranger box (i.e. +20), so only a true Master Ranger will be able to use them to full effect. That sounds right to me.


And for the record my plan is Trandoshan Master Ranger / Master Scout / Master Rifleman / Marksman 4004 /FS Enhanced Reflexes (Survival 4). So I'm hardly a dabbler.
Leafthemedic
Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:23 pm
#84

Make it a Master Ranger only skill (this seems to be a theme of the combat balance to make a mastery worth it). I for one would LOVE to place a "harvestor" on Tatooine to collect nuna meat. I would suggest that finding the best place to drop your harvestor would be an expansion of the tracking skill and give you a readout that wouldbe like the artisan survey skill.


Tracy

Master Ranger/Pistoleer

Naritus Galaxie



________StarWars Galaxies ________
RETURN OF THE JEDI
I am not a Jedi, because everyone else is....
CHFreak
Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:28 pm
#85

I'm for it provided its restricted to Ranger only useage.



Caramar, Bria
Former Master Creature Handler/Master Scout/Ranger 0030/TKM
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frightwig
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:40 am
#86



Piroa wrote:


TheUrbanPrimate wrote:
It sucks knowing before I even get there that I won't be a match for certain Scouts who have spent half the skill points on outdoorsman classes that I did.



Probably not even that many.





True... but remember, most rangers know this. I knew I could be outharvested when I became a ranger. I'd just never done an actual test against another player. However, even after seeing the numbers I'm still not considering dropping ranger. The profession may have it's problems, but it's what I enjoy.. problems and all. To be honest, if you just want to harvest large amounts of resources off of the biggest creatures in the game, they've got the smarter template.

Also, keep in mind that we're talking Fierce Picket protectors here.. At master, assuming they're fat and healthy, they offer about 200units. The real problem here is that a person with harvesting 1 or 2 doesn't get 10 or 20 percent of what a master ranger gets, but more like 100 or so units! Same for Rancors if you need leathery hide or carnivore meat. They still offer relatively large amounts if you only have scout harvesting skills, and if you can kill it faster, that makes up for the reduced units.

However, they can't compete when it comes to avian meat (no bird is hard to kill with any combat profession, and it can all be done unbuffed), most types of herbivore on endor... or herbivore/wooly on tat, killing banthas. I can cut through those creatures as fast or faster than most combat professions and I don't need melee defenses to help, much less buffs. I can outharvest anyone who doesn't have master ranger, and if they only have scout I don't even need veghash or a droid.

But, I'm still against organic harvestors.



kimi raikonnen Kauri
° [Carbineer] :: [Bounty Hunter] :: Imperial Storm Trooper
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Storm Squadron
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Black Epsilon
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Imperial Inquisition

Chickenlad
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:43 am
#87






BaneShee wrote:

/Against .... I will not vote for automated organic harvesting unless the devs allows the Ranger community and only the Ranger community to help design and approve the final implementation.








I respect your opinion, however, I feel that master scouts should also have a small input and use as well, a "tease" if you will, of what could be should they choose ranger as a profession.


Just as marksman/brawler have less powerful weapon certifications in the initial stages than those who choose to later specialize in an advanced combat form later, so too should scouts enjoy low power certification of organic harvesting equipment (or whatever it is).


On a different note:


I love the idea of city structure farms. Personally, I didn't mind milking for chefs, and over the course of two days I was able to get 10K units the very first time we could milk from pickets (now however, it seems that the ability to milk the same creature is time based on when it stops being dry, rather than travelling 250m away and coming back). That's great for bantha butter, however, BEs need 40,000 units to make a SINGLE run of one type of additive. Either the devs need to change their schematic, or creatures need to start lactating more.


Also, it irks me to no end that at 100 creature harvesting, I filet the same amount from a caught fish as a novice scout. Whiskey tango foxtrot. 4 units of fish? Bite me. Novice scout doesn't even know the dangerous end of the filet knife.

sanca
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:05 am
#88


Chickenlad wrote:


BaneShee wrote:
/Against .... I will not vote for automated organic harvesting unless the devs allows the Ranger community and only the Ranger community to help design and approve the final implementation.



Just as marksman/brawler have less powerful weapon certifications in the initial stages than those who choose to later specialize in an advanced combat form later, so too should scouts enjoy low power certification of organic harvesting equipment (or whatever it is).





I strongly disagree with that. I feel that this would be something that would set rangers apart from scouts, they wouldnt just be uber scouts, they would do somethings differently making them more effective. The brawler/marksman comparison is flawed because brawlers/marksmen *need* some sort of weapon to get xp and advance, scouts can already harvest and get scout xp so I don't think they should be entitled to harvesting equipment (or the way i would like it to be implemented: creature traps).







Q Naawo - Wookiee Master Ranger - Teras Kasi Master I
N Narc Ska'sro - Master Carbineer - Combat Doctor h
Zapper_Weisman
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:12 am
#89






Chickenlad wrote:



I respect your opinion, however, I feel that master scouts should also have a small input and use as well, a "tease" if you will, of what could be should they choose ranger as a profession.


Just as marksman/brawler have less powerful weapon certifications in the initial stages than those who choose to later specialize in an advanced combat form later, so too should scouts enjoy low power certification of organic harvesting equipment (or whatever it is).




I would personally think that their harvesting abilites as they currently are would be the tease. How much more incentive to become a ranger do they need than being able toharvest more in a hunt PLUS what they would get from traps? Knowing that rangers have multiple harvesting abilities and a scout does not would be more of an incentive to me than having some limited 'teaser' use. Its like mask scent/camo... Most people consider camo to be better, so a mask scent reliant scout would be more inclined to go Ranger because camo kits are just better than sticking with MS, BE clothes and jawa beer. If Master scout got, say, the naboo camo kit and a few mods, he wouldnt be able to use it to its full effectiveness and would definately find MS better, so he'd probably just stick with scout.




Jadis Stardust:
Master Bio-Engineer/Master Ranger
"You're psycho, but everyone loves your work"

>--Proud Supporter of the Annual Marina Del Rey Poodle Shoot and Barbeque!--

Gelotri
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:17 am
#90

As long as it is for Ranger use only...I am for it...


However, Like was mentioned before......For low yield creatures and NOT for use by any other profession....If they allow other professions to use it, even say at Scout level, there will no longer be a need for Ranger.



Gelotri - Shadowfire - Elder CL90 Jedi
EX Master Pikeman - EX Master Ranger - EX Master Tera Kasai - EX Master Marksman - EX Master Bounty Hunter - EX Master Creature Handler - EX Master Swords

***That which Does not kill us, only affects our HAx***
DoctorDe
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:28 pm
#91

What?? Make uberrr l33t 4 giant krayt dragon tanking super duper melee stacking rangers even ubererrr?? NEVER!!!!!!!!! NERF RANGER!!



Jolin Ires
Master Pistoleer, Former Ranger
Proud member of RATGWNIWNU

The new SWG paradigm brought to you by the ROTW expansion/CURB: "It's okay to make combat players have to form large groups to kill bunnies and puppies, but don't you DARE force a combat player to interact with anyone where the interaction involves anything other than hitting and shooting in unison."
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