Ranger Archive
Thread: Poll: For or against automated organics harvesting?
Squidwalker
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:31 am
#66
Hmmm my initial thought is no. Mainly because it takes away from what Ranger is about, running around hunting and harvesting.
Buuuut if we get something like say a stationary trap idea where we set it and forget, like a harvestor, I say its much less harvesting amount then doing it manually. Like half or less then that. And the traps should be limited use. They should be crafted like camps, with bone, hide, and metal. And resource quality should count for something, making it harvest more and last longer.
What I mean by last longer, is with crappy resources, it only harvests x amount of resource of specified type. If made with better resources it will harvest x*y amount of them. Once it reaches the amount its going to harvest it stops. You go collect it. When crafting it, you have to specify ONE resource type you want it to harvest.
Fishing nets are a must. They are a needed resource and hard and slow as heck to get. And our harvesting bonus does not gain us any benefit for it all. So a fishing net, even if it meant using it manually, would be killer to increase fish catching and thus fish harvesting.
Message Edited by Squidwalker on 10-19-2004 08:33 AM
Zapper_Weisman
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:50 am
#67
Vriko wrote:
Why shouldn't Ranger require all of Scout?
I wasnt talking about prerequisite skills... I was saying its the only class where you need an entirely different class (ie-a combat class) to use one of the most important skills of the class (ie-harvesting). Ranger is still way too based on group play, which just doesnt exist very much anymore.
Message Edited by Zapper_Weisman on 10-19-2004 08:54 AM
Phenix1050
Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 am
#68
Zapper_Weisman wrote:
Vriko wrote:
Why shouldn't Ranger require all of Scout?
I wasnt talking about prerequisite skills... I was saying its the only class where you need an entirely different class (ie-a combat class) to use one of the most important skills of the class (ie-harvesting). Ranger is still way too based on group play, which just doesnt exist very much anymore.
actually, Ranger doesn't force you into group play...unless you choose not to have a combat proffession. The game allows you to choose: hunt yourself or hunt with others. That's the beauty of the system. If you choose not to pick up combat skills, then you are essentially saying you don't mind group play. If you don't like hunting with others, pick up some combat skills. You can't have it both ways.
Aenedor
Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:53 am
#69
AGAINST.
1) The price of harvested organic resources will plumet downwards and I will no longer be a rich Ranger.
2) I would need to reclaim some or all of my lots which are currently all used for the benefit of others in my guild.
3) I would no longer be able to make pots of money whilst doing the thing I love best, which is huntiing.
Ailsa
Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:10 pm
#70
frightwig wrote:
against
The only automated system I would be for, and the only one that makes sense, would be for milk, eggs or fish. Automated harvestors that gather meat/hide/bone is a bad idea. The biggest problem is if these harvestors were to be useable by scouts (or worse, like inorganic harvestors, by anyone). Defense stacked swordsmen with a little bit of novice scout already outharvest Rangers. If it can be automated, what does that mean for the ranger profession?
100% agree with what frightwig said. It only makes sense for the milk, eggs, and/or fish. But if they WERE going to implement it, it better require Frontiering IV or Master Ranger. As it stands now, like frightwig said, we can be outharvested by someone dabbling in Scout if they have the right combat abilities.
Ranger_Nizzle
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:24 pm
#71
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
So, are you guys for or against automated organics harvesting (i.e. placeable, unattended organics harvesters)?
definitely against.
DaveG
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:43 pm
#72
frightwig wrote:
against
The only automated system I would be for, and the only one that makes sense, would be for milk, eggs or fish. Automated harvestors that gather meat/hide/bone is a bad idea. The biggest problem is if these harvestors were to be useable by scouts (or worse, like inorganic harvestors, by anyone). Defense stacked swordsmen with a little bit of novice scout already outharvest Rangers. If it can be automated, what does that mean for the ranger profession?
This proposal is for rangers only. Therefore the situation you commented about swordsmen/scout templates out harvesting us rangers would be further balanced. If these harvestors were a master or level 4 schematic, then a "defence stacked swordsman" would have to be fairly heavily invested in ranger already before he/she could use it. Otherwise, that "defence stacked swordsman" with only scout is going to be running around crazy killing everything, while us rangers will be setting our traps/harestors (which the swordsman/scout can't use), AND running around killing stuff, harvesting more per hour than our swordsmen counterparts.
Mugil
Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:18 am
#73
I like the fish net idea; or as someone else stated, introducing larger fish that yield greater amounts of meat. Perhaps usingcreature knowledge and/or creature harvestingto determine the maximum possible size.
The net idea has potential as there are numerous types of nets (stop, gill, sein, etc.).The type of net you could make and use (which would determine quantity harvested) could bebased onyour level of trapping skill.
However, I will not be happy until ican live on a houseboat and fish off mydeck.
Message Edited by Mugil on 10-19-2004 03:19 PM
DaveG
Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:21 am
#74
Mugil wrote:
However, I will not be happy until ican live on a houseboat and fish off mydeck.
What a great idea, better than JTL's gonna be
gelain
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:28 am
#75
Well, I may be one of the "newer members" as such. I left a while ago and have recently come back to SW:G. I'm only Novice Ranger (0010) now and plan on finishing Master Rifleman (seems its all or nothing there), 4432 (in no particular order) Ranger, Medic 2200 (I like the idea of a Ranger being somewhat able to heal people). Although I won't gain Master Ranger I still see myself as a Ranger rather than Master Rifleman. That said ...
As something similar to current harvesters .... no way in hell.
Fishing net that is crafted high up (3 or 4) in Adv Trapping (and maybe usable at Adv Trap II) I don't think would be too bad. Should be a ... chuck it in and come back in 1hr for fish bodies sort of thing.
The idea of making a generic creature trap and then adding a bait (harvested meat for carnivores and foraged berries, etc for herbivores) and collecting corpses also sounds good. Again, make it short term, ie 3hr max, and usable/created only by Rangers. At least it will make foraging useful.
I'm not too fussed on the milk and eggs. Its not hard to collect eggs as it is and milking is somewhat funny. Especially if they keep moving half way through milking. I'll give them two chances and if they move a third time I shoot the bastards! (Although, since you can't milk males ... MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER!!! ... I should have said "biatches")
The biggest downside I see to this is that it may just be a bone to throw at Rangers so they don't have to look at any other problems for a bit longer. I've played rangers in many different games (EQ - Ranger, DAoC - Hunter, Ranger & Warden) and seen too many bones. Now, all that said, I've not really seen any problems, but like I said at the beginning I'm just getting into Ranger.
As something similar to current harvesters .... no way in hell.
Fishing net that is crafted high up (3 or 4) in Adv Trapping (and maybe usable at Adv Trap II) I don't think would be too bad. Should be a ... chuck it in and come back in 1hr for fish bodies sort of thing.
The idea of making a generic creature trap and then adding a bait (harvested meat for carnivores and foraged berries, etc for herbivores) and collecting corpses also sounds good. Again, make it short term, ie 3hr max, and usable/created only by Rangers. At least it will make foraging useful.
I'm not too fussed on the milk and eggs. Its not hard to collect eggs as it is and milking is somewhat funny. Especially if they keep moving half way through milking. I'll give them two chances and if they move a third time I shoot the bastards! (Although, since you can't milk males ... MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER!!! ... I should have said "biatches")
The biggest downside I see to this is that it may just be a bone to throw at Rangers so they don't have to look at any other problems for a bit longer. I've played rangers in many different games (EQ - Ranger, DAoC - Hunter, Ranger & Warden) and seen too many bones. Now, all that said, I've not really seen any problems, but like I said at the beginning I'm just getting into Ranger.
frightwig
Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:11 am
#76
DaveG wrote:
frightwig wrote:
against
The only automated system I would be for, and the only one that makes sense, would be for milk, eggs or fish. Automated harvestors that gather meat/hide/bone is a bad idea. The biggest problem is if these harvestors were to be useable by scouts (or worse, like inorganic harvestors, by anyone). Defense stacked swordsmen with a little bit of novice scout already outharvest Rangers. If it can be automated, what does that mean for the ranger profession?This proposal is for rangers only. Therefore the situation you commented about swordsmen/scout templates out harvesting us rangers would be further balanced. If these harvestors were a master or level 4 schematic, then a "defence stacked swordsman" would have to be fairly heavily invested in ranger already before he/she could use it. Otherwise, that "defence stacked swordsman" with only scout is going to be running around crazy killing everything, while us rangers will be setting our traps/harestors (which the swordsman/scout can't use), AND running around killing stuff, harvesting more per hour than our swordsmen counterparts.
Well, I said if it were useable by scouts.. or anyone. The original post didn't say whether it was Ranger only or otherwise.
You made a good point though, about it further balancing the situation of scouts outharvesting rangers. Consider that if these harvestors were ranger only (even at master level), then the problem of scouts outharvesting rangers would be balanced. Consider also that it would take an automated machine for us rangers to be competitive with or harvest more than a scout/swordsman. That's a sad statement for the ranger profession! I apologize if I mistunderstood your comments or took them out of context.
Here's a recent example of my concern. Last week, there was a good spawn of herbivore on Dantooine. Only 50-60cpu, but everyone is running around trying to get it. Here's a test of two actual templates.
Me/Kimi: Master Ranger/Master Rifles/1.0.0.0 medic
Buffs: Doc buffs/2 brandies/1 canape
Armor: none. Max camo/ms and +17/17 wound/injury treatment BE clothing
+32 Veghash and 109 droid
Used a t21 and spammed Headshot3 as quickly as possible. In one buff session on pickets/bols I was able to come up with 17k herbivore meat, moving as quickly as possible on a speeder, having backup mission lairs to hunt, and tracking the rest or hunting natural lairs.... 17k units in 3 hours.
Him/opponent: Master Brawler/Master Swords/4440 fencer/2040 medic/0020 scout (Yes, +30 in creature harvesting!)
Buffs: Doc buffs, and some food buffs.. (roughly the same as me)
Armor: Full 80% kinetic composite
+32 Veghash and 109 droid
Not sure of his tactics/specials. But he was cutting through Fierce picket protectors much quicker than I was. He ended up with at least 30k meat in one 3 hour buff session. Others with a similar template on Dantooine were getting the same.. 30-34k average. I heard 35k from one guy who was getting it for his master doc Alt... +30k units in 3 hours.
Do we have to spend the SP to master ranger to obtain certs to machinery or traps that will let us equal or outharvest a person with "harvesting 2"? The obvious answer is forget the machinery.. even the traps. Give us much greater harvesting ability at the master ranger level (or take it out of the same tree as tracking) and greatly increase our defense mods, spread out among the skillboxes.
TheUrbanPrimate
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:48 am
#77
I really wish I could get into the "its a lifestyle" and "we're patient, we can wait for change" spirit, but posts like that just make me furious. I really, really love the concept of the Ranger. I agree that a Ranger needs to take a combat profession if he wants to solo, but the idea that a character who stops with some Scout skills (possibly not even Master)and stacks a couple of combat professions on top of it can outperform Rangers at one of the things Rangers are supposed to do best... It makes me lose heart. I'm a Novice Ranger with plans to go Master/Master Rifleman. That is, to me, the quintesential hunter. It sucks knowing before I even get there that I won't be a match for certain Scouts who have spent half the skill points on outdoorsman classes that I did. 
Piroa
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:05 pm
#78
TheUrbanPrimate wrote:
It sucks knowing before I even get there that I won't be a match for certain Scouts who have spent half the skill points on outdoorsman classes that I did.
Probably not even that many.